0083

[orlandofed5-0]

In625shooter is incorrect on several topics. USBP has been 6c/12d covered for decades. Most FEDLEO are 12d as 6c applied to CSRS and 12d is FERS. UPTP transfer to all the federal agencies that utilize 0083 aside from maybe the DoD 0083s. CITP is accepted by all 1811 agencies except DEA and FBI because they use quantico. Army CID is accepted by some 1811 agencies and not others. Army CID is really the only MCIO not utilizing CITP but does use FLETC for some advanced courses. USMC CID has been using ASAT or FLETC for their civilian 1811s. The rest of the MCIO and DCIS use FLETC CITP. Yes it true that you may attend an agency add on, i.e. if were hired with ATF, USSS, USMS, you would attend their agency specific add on, but the basic citp is accepted by all excluding DEA/FBI. In fact, most if not all CITP classes are mixed much like the UPTP classes.

Actually the VA does not accept FLETC for LE training purposes and requires all of its 0083's to go through its own academy in Little Rock.

[scotty_appleton814]

My father worked VA about 7 years ago and came from Border Patrol and local LE and he did NOT go through anything other than there specific local training at the hospital. So as far the VA goes, could it be that the local VA departments can make their own determinations on an individuals previous training?

[in625shooter]

In625shooter is incorrect on several topics. USBP has been 6c/12d covered for decades. Most FEDLEO are 12d as 6c applied to CSRS and 12d is FERS. UPTP transfer to all the federal agencies that utilize 0083 aside from maybe the DoD 0083s. CITP is accepted by all 1811 agencies except DEA and FBI because they use quantico. Army CID is accepted by some 1811 agencies and not others. Army CID is really the only MCIO not utilizing CITP but does use FLETC for some advanced courses. USMC CID has been using ASAT or FLETC for their civilian 1811s. The rest of the MCIO and DCIS use FLETC CITP. Yes it true that you may attend an agency add on, i.e. if were hired with ATF, USSS, USMS, you would attend their agency specific add on, but the basic citp is accepted by all excluding DEA/FBI. In fact, most if not all CITP classes are mixed much like the UPTP classes.

OIG, I never stated everything I mentioned was absolute, I just simply stated there are several stipulations with each department. Some might accept whatever academy/training one has had from their former agency but many more don't. I did make mention of the person going from Border Patrol to customs. Also the differences in pay scales for some. It's up to each person to check out their desired agencies specifics.

My father worked VA about 7 years ago and came from Border Patrol and local LE and he did NOT go through anything other than there specific local training at the hospital. So as far the VA goes, could it be that the local VA departments can make their own determinations on an individuals previous training?

The VA has had several changes the last few years in their training. While there are stipulations to everything you could probably find examples on both sides of the coin as far as who was or was not required to go to their training center. To me it would be silly to send someone that has been a BP Agent, or most other FED LE job to a school for the VA. Not that the VA isn't an important function but a BP agent, other FED LE AGENT or Municipal LEO is down shifting quite a bit and is probably a lot more experienced in arrest and constitutional issues that would ever be needed in a VA scenario. But rules from the boss don;t have to make sense.

[VirgLocl2Fed]

in625shooter;
I concur regarding your response about going from a municipal department to the VA. It is a slower pace and not everyone applauds your "outside" experience (although THAT was a factor in determining whether or not to hire you over another applicant). Worse, NEVER be smarter (about police work/criminal procedure/case law/State law) than your boss... at least, don't let them know you are! The slower pace; however, is the reason that many retired officers choose the VA (I did, anyway.)
Bear in mind (redundant to say, as I consider your proffered experience), that not all VA facilities are the same (in regards to threat/perils/etc..). Location (city) is a factor, as well as local ordinances and State law. The facility administrator is the equivalent of the Commissioner/City Manager/Mayor, and they have broad authority regarding police operations and actions. This alone can hamper an officer's ability to effectively carry out (legitimate) police duties. Some facilities are busier than others, and let's not forget who the patrons are that visit the facility; trained military veterans. Not everyone is a disabled Korean War vet, and the accompanying family members/caregivers/transporters are not always upstanding citizens.
Knowing Constitutional Law, case law, investigation techniques, proper report writing, et al; is good for you (civil liability), but it does not matter to the facility administrator. In my opinion; the Administrator could care less - "ignorance is bliss"!
There are several other former/retired municipal officers at my facility. We work well together; we get it. We 've accepted the slower pace, but "operate" as if we were still "on the street". We just "smile and wave" more often.
Finally, LETC did not teach me anything (significant) compared to the 28 week academy I attended when I initially became a "sworn" officer in Virginia. It would've made perfect sense, and been financially beneficial for the VA, if they had accepted my Virginia DCJS certification.
I did grimace a few times at LETC, but it's the federal government, and it's about working at a hospital. I guess it was more me than "them"; I am still adjusting...LOL!

Enjoy reading your posts, Brother.
Be safe.

[in625shooter]

in625shooter;
I concur regarding your response about going from a municipal department to the VA. It is a slower pace and not everyone applauds your "outside" experience (although THAT was a factor in determining whether or not to hire you over another applicant). Worse, NEVER be smarter (about police work/criminal procedure/case law/State law) than your boss... at least, don't let them know you are! The slower pace; however, is the reason that many retired officers choose the VA (I did, anyway.)
Bear in mind (redundant to say, as I consider your proffered experience), that not all VA facilities are the same (in regards to threat/perils/etc..). Location (city) is a factor, as well as local ordinances and State law. The facility administrator is the equivalent of the Commissioner/City Manager/Mayor, and they have broad authority regarding police operations and actions. This alone can hamper an officer's ability to effectively carry out (legitimate) police duties. Some facilities are busier than others, and let's not forget who the patrons are that visit the facility; trained military veterans. Not everyone is a disabled Korean War vet, and the accompanying family members/caregivers/transporters are not always upstanding citizens.
Knowing Constitutional Law, case law, investigation techniques, proper report writing, et al; is good for you (civil liability), but it does not matter to the facility administrator. In my opinion; the Administrator could care less - "ignorance is bliss"!
There are several other former/retired municipal officers at my facility. We work well together; we get it. We 've accepted the slower pace, but "operate" as if we were still "on the street". We just "smile and wave" more often.
Finally, LETC did not teach me anything (significant) compared to the 28 week academy I attended when I initially became a "sworn" officer in Virginia. It would've made perfect sense, and been financially beneficial for the VA, if they had accepted my Virginia DCJS certification.
I did grimace a few times at LETC, but it's the federal government, and it's about working at a hospital. I guess it was more me than "them"; I am still adjusting...LOL!

Enjoy reading your posts, Brother.
Be safe.

VirgLocl2Fed, I agree and in prior posts pretty much said similar things. I had an opportunity to go to the VA Police but declined only for the reduction of pay and working longer. I was all ready to slow down. And as far as the folks in charge not having experience, well that seems to be a more common occurrence these days especially anything within the Federal GOV. The VA the Hospital administrator calls most shots. In the Bureau of Prisons there are more Wardens that came up through psychology or Unit Management than Custody these days which can be an issue since they have a different outlook on Uses of Force etc.

Speaking of slowing down it really is an evolution, a lot of folks (me anyway)( had more motivation in our 20's and with the combination of growing older, being in the stuff (having enough action if you will) and realizing a lot of times your powers that be don't want anything like that if the can help it (IE nowhere near being proactive minded) you realize you can still do your job, satisfy the boss and not have the headaches all for the same pay. Nothing like working like a mule to find out a lot of it don't matter!

Some are OK with the slowness even coming straight into it but others (and a lot of times those 20 somethings) have an illusion it's like the movies which I smile and tell them if they want to kick in doors they might want to go to a more progressive State or Municipal PD agency because no where in the Feds are it, sure some specialized teams might be the tip of the spear somewhere but most of the time and for most folks it is not. The pay and retirement is the biggest thing the Feds has going. Glad the VA is improving the pay.

[orlandofed5-0]

My father worked VA about 7 years ago and came from Border Patrol and local LE and he did NOT go through anything other than there specific local training at the hospital. So as far the VA goes, could it be that the local VA departments can make their own determinations on an individuals previous training?

He would of had to go to Little Rock for the VA LETC police "academy". The only 2 VA's to never send anyone through this training was DC VAMC in 99 and Tampa VAMC which run an LETC waiver program.

[VirgLocl2Fed]

in625shooter,
Yes, Brother! I can remember when I first chose to do this. I was old enough not to be too naïve, but completely "idealistic". I was going to lock up every criminal I could put a set of 'cuffs on!!!
Then it happened. My first complaint; I cursed at the (arrestee) citizen. Letter of reprimand for violating the G.O. regarding "..use of appropriate language when speaking with citizens..."
Later, excessive force (unfounded). Next, "racial profiling/prejudice" (Unfounded..I'm bi-racial, BTW..just don't look it...enough..apparently).
On and on...ad nausium. I got tired of using my days off to go to the "Office of Professional Standards" to explain....well, why I was out of the patrol car doing police work.
You'll laugh, Brother, but this had become the general feeling after awhile (in the entire dept.) "Big arrests, big problems. Little arrests, little problems. No arrests, no problems." This is not my work ethic; it's Game On when I'm on duty.
Digital mediums, social media, biased news reporting and the urge by municipalities to please EVERY demographic has made the job more hazardous than the introduction of Black Talon bullets!
I will always love this job, and find satisfaction on my own terms. Most of us aren't looking for an "Atta Boy" from the Chief; we go home...alive..and are rewarded through the support of those that love us, worry about us and are glad we just walked through the door.

Sometimes it is disappointing to curtail "proactive" policing, only because your superiors wouldn't approve. I have literally been told by a supervisor, "..Don't go out there looking for trouble tonight; I want to get off on time!"
<smh>

Always a pleasure, in625shooter!
Be safe, Brother!

[ropren]

I know BP Agents that transferred to Customs and Customs made them go through the WHOLE Customs course.

That's the only thing about FLETC that I don't understand. We also have a guy that went through both FAM and CPB courses and he had to go through UPTP. There is no one basic course that can be added on with advance training. Now there is talk (my agency) that if your training at UPTP is longer than 5 years old and are a new hire you get to go through again.

[MARINE EGA]

From what I have been told FLETC does not have their own 0083s patrolling the installation. If thats true, isnt it odd that the one place that trains and certifies 0083s doesn’t employ any to patrol?

[tanksoldier]

Not really….

[SJM247]

When I was there in 2021, Chenega Corp. Had the contract for ECP and patrols. I asked them what there process is like and they go through a FLETC course pretty similar to UPTP (although I think theirs is 8 weeks). I'm not a finances person, but I'm guessing having contractors saves the center money [feel free to correct if I'm wrong]

Edit: oops, didn't read the next post...guess I'm repeating what OrlandoFed said

[orlandofed5-0]

From what I have been told FLETC does not have their own 0083s patrolling the installation. If thats true, isnt it odd that the one place that trains and certifies 0083s doesn’t employ any to patrol?

You do realize the last post was made back in 2015....

FLETC at one time had their own 0083's and 0085's who handled law enforcement and security at both Artesia and Glynco. However when Department of Treasury did an audit, the 0083's were doing less than 15% law enforcement duties and the 0085's were only GS-4 and 5's. Sometimes contracting out is a smarter move.


FLETC doesn't "certify" anyone. Agencies do the certification.