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USMC/AFGE LEOSA agreement 6/2014

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  • USMC/AFGE LEOSA agreement 6/2014

    Hopefully this attachment works out. As of 26 June 2014, HQMC has acknowledged 0083 civilian police officers as having the authority to carry concealed firearms in accordance with LEOSA. AFGE Council 240 encompasses most bargaining unit employees at USMC bases.

    My last post today was a flop, hopefully this is actually useful. I was told that there are still those in USMC leadership that are unaware of the binding agreement in place. If anyone would like a copy e-mailed to them, please PM me.

    AFGE HQMC LEOSA agreement.jpg

  • #2
    Does USMC issue standard civ. Police creds like Army? Anyone know if USAF and DON do? Several years ago, it seemed every base did their own thing, some going so far as to only to their CAC/PIV card which only ID them as a GS but not their position.
    ...and is commended as being worthy of trust and confidence

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by OIG1811 View Post
      Does USMC issue standard civ. Police creds like Army? Anyone know if USAF and DON do? Several years ago, it seemed every base did their own thing, some going so far as to only to their CAC/PIV card which only ID them as a GS but not their position.
      Yes, USMC issues police creds to both MPs and civilian officers. USAF does not, with the exception of LAFB, and is going to an optional LEOSA ID card for off duty. I can't comment for the Navy.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm USMC stepped up, be nice if the rest of DoD stepped up for both their military and civilian LE. I know Army does for civilian 083, MPI military, and CID, but I believe if your a just an MP you don't get jack, much like the USAF and USN military guys. At least, USAF is giving the LEOSA ID.

        Are the creds standardized like the USA?
        ...and is commended as being worthy of trust and confidence

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by OIG1811 View Post
          I'm USMC stepped up, be nice if the rest of DoD stepped up for both their military and civilian LE. I know Army does for civilian 083, MPI military, and CID, but I believe if your a just an MP you don't get jack, much like the USAF and USN military guys. At least, USAF is giving the LEOSA ID.

          Are the creds standardized like the USA?
          Army has just sent down instructions for all MPs on LEOSA and the office of the provost marshal's website will have a link to apply for the LEO LEOSA ID.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by OIG1811 View Post
            I'm USMC stepped up, be nice if the rest of DoD stepped up for both their military and civilian LE. I know Army does for civilian 083, MPI military, and CID, but I believe if your a just an MP you don't get jack, much like the USAF and USN military guys. At least, USAF is giving the LEOSA ID.

            Are the creds standardized like the USA?
            The creds are standardized for the entire USMC. There has been talk about listing firearms that you are qualified on to the creds and some changes to the badge.

            Comment


            • #7
              What kind of badge changes? Something like the USMC CID badge would be nice, its a nice badge compared the o083 badge. We had two civilian USMC CID guys in our training, good dudes. I think the gun on the creds is nonsense.
              ...and is commended as being worthy of trust and confidence

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TheSentinel View Post
                The creds are standardized for the entire USMC. There has been talk about listing firearms that you are qualified on to the creds and some changes to the badge.
                Just an interjection from being involved in LEOSA since 2004/2005 and a Firearms Instructor. That is (^^THIS^^) is funny because on the firearms part in LEOSA it only states "qualified" it does not specifically state or break down a specific type of firearm (or even break down handgun from rifle for that matter). You could be qualified by the agency on a DAO 9mm but legally carry a Glock, 1911 or even a revolver. And you are perfectly legal. LEOSA is simple but people (primarily people trying to run agencies)continue to muddy the waters on their own with it.

                Now if their leadership wants to try and restrict it they would loose on any arbitration the civilian workforce would pursue based on the way the law is written and what other agencies are doing. The only way the agency could win in that is if the employee was "Required" to carry off duty and had arrest powers off duty two items which are not required to carry under LEOSA.


                Originally posted by OIG1811 View Post
                What kind of badge changes? Something like the USMC CID badge would be nice, its a nice badge compared the o083 badge. We had two civilian USMC CID guys in our training, good dudes. I think the gun on the creds is nonsense.
                There is NO requirement to carry a badge under LEOSA, in fact some agencies covered by LEOSA do not issue badges for off duty use. BOP is one example.
                Last edited by in625shooter; 01-26-2015, 06:52 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Duplicate post.
                  Last edited by TheSentinel; 01-26-2015, 04:10 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by in625shooter View Post
                    Just an interjection from being involved in LEOSA since 2004/2005 and a Firearms Instructor. That is (^^THIS^^) is funny because on the firearms part in LEOSA it only states "qualified" it does not specifically state or break down a specific type of firearm (or even break down handgun from rifle for that matter). You could be qualified by the agency on a DAO 9mm but legally carry a Glock, 1911 or even a revolver. And you are perfectly legal. LEOSA is simple but people (primarily people trying to run agencies)continue to muddy the waters on their own with it.

                    Now if their leadership wants to try and restrict it they would loose on any arbitration the civilian workforce would pursue based on the way the law is written and what other agencies are doing. The only way the agency could win in that is if the employee was "Required" to carry off duty and had arrest powers off duty two items which are not required to carry under LEOSA.




                    There is NO requirement to carry a badge under LEOSA, in fact some agencies covered by LEOSA do not issue badges for off duty use. BOP is one example.
                    Yeah, we can't fight it until they try to implement it. One boss said we would have to qualify on each firearm on our own dime in order for USMC to list it on our creds. Seems to be a clear cut case of a soup sandwich, but its just a rumor though. According to the CA AG, LEOSA exempts us from the CA assault weapons ban, thinking about concealing a .50 Cal Barrett M82 in my pants.

                    The flat badge is part of our creds, though not required for LEOSA.
                    Last edited by TheSentinel; 01-26-2015, 11:26 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yeah, qualified but it can be any weapon. Did USMC go with ehe traditional FED creds (2 piece & badge) or simple one card and badge like the VA Police. I guess it doesn't matter, but most federal agencies are standard two part with badges.
                      ...and is commended as being worthy of trust and confidence

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TheSentinel View Post
                        Yeah, we can't fight it until they try to implement it. One boss said we would have to qualify on each firearm on our own dime in order for USMC to list it on our creds. Seems to be a clear cut case of a soup sandwich, but its just a rumor though. According to the CA AG, LEOSA exempts us from the CA assault weapons ban, thinking about concealing a .50 Cal Barrett M82 in my pants.

                        The flat badge is part of our creds, though not required for LEOSA.
                        While most here know this, The whole listing of weapons on your creds isn't a LEOSA thing, If yoour agency requires it for on duty thats one thing but LEOSA is for Off Duty, your creds are proof your currently employed by a GOV agency (FED, State, Municipality, County whatever) The only Listing is for retired staff. Retired staff (depending on state and most states require it) have a separate qualification card for firearms to prove qualifications on said firearms. Active LEO's Agency ID card suffice for the qualification part (thats one of the conditions of employment and LEOSA) If retired then you fall upon your home state of resodence requirement, as example Indiana you have to qualify through the Indiana LE Academy, there are several acredited LE instructors, you get with them, they shoot you your one time a year (each state is different but usually once per year for retired is the norm) and your good. Then they issue your qualification card to carry with your Agency ID.

                        Like most know LEOSA isn't rocket science but a lot of folks in everyone's agencies sure make it an ordeal and muddy the waters but in fairness BOP went through some similarities and confusion at first but not as much as what my DOD friends are relaying are.

                        Good luck

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by OIG1811 View Post
                          Yeah, qualified but it can be any weapon. Did USMC go with ehe traditional FED creds (2 piece & badge) or simple one card and badge like the VA Police. I guess it doesn't matter, but most federal agencies are standard two part with badges.
                          Yes, USMC is currently issuing the two piece and badge.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The Creds issued by USMC is a 2 piece with badge, on the back is the OPNAV 5512/2 Authorization to carry firearms, the biggest confusion by most "higher up's" is that the 5512/2 has to be filled out for concealed carry, however if the higher ups would actually read the instruction it is for carrying a weapon in the performance of their duties. The 5512/2 has nothing to do with LEOSA. Several court cases have defined weapon "TYPE" as Handgun, Rifle and shotgun.
                            There are a few PM's that have outright told their officers they are not covered under LEOSA and if caught they would be terminated. A copy of the MOU was provided to one PM and his comment was that only pertains to Personal CCW's.
                            The civilians were told that they belong to the Marine Corps 24/7 and have to follow orders. Well if I have no authority off duty and or off base, then the Marine Corps has no authority over me off duty and off base, so long as I do not break the Law, if they want to go that route then I should be receiving on call pay 24/7.
                            Well here is my though process on this issue, when it comes to PM's or commands that try to discipline or cause the arrest of a Civilian Police officer who is exercising their right or privilege under LEOSA. If harm (ie discipline, termination, arrest) occurs because of the actions of the PM or command, they could face litigation (if all the elements are met) under 18 USC 241 and 242. LEOSA is a law, and that law gives Law Enforcement officers the right or privilege to carry a concealed firearm as long as they meet the requirements under they law. By them restricting (preventing) and causing some type of harm, they are in essence violating a right or privilege without due process.
                            I was given a good piece of advise with regards to the Marine Corps and LEOSA, since there is a valid MOU. "Argue less with those who think they know, and just do what has been agreed upon".

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by badge904 View Post
                              The Creds issued by USMC is a 2 piece with badge, on the back is the OPNAV 5512/2 Authorization to carry firearms, the biggest confusion by most "higher up's" is that the 5512/2 has to be filled out for concealed carry, however if the higher ups would actually read the instruction it is for carrying a weapon in the performance of their duties. The 5512/2 has nothing to do with LEOSA. Several court cases have defined weapon "TYPE" as Handgun, Rifle and shotgun.
                              There are a few PM's that have outright told their officers they are not covered under LEOSA and if caught they would be terminated. A copy of the MOU was provided to one PM and his comment was that only pertains to Personal CCW's.
                              The civilians were told that they belong to the Marine Corps 24/7 and have to follow orders. Well if I have no authority off duty and or off base, then the Marine Corps has no authority over me off duty and off base, so long as I do not break the Law, if they want to go that route then I should be receiving on call pay 24/7.
                              Well here is my though process on this issue, when it comes to PM's or commands that try to discipline or cause the arrest of a Civilian Police officer who is exercising their right or privilege under LEOSA. If harm (ie discipline, termination, arrest) occurs because of the actions of the PM or command, they could face litigation (if all the elements are met) under 18 USC 241 and 242. LEOSA is a law, and that law gives Law Enforcement officers the right or privilege to carry a concealed firearm as long as they meet the requirements under they law. By them restricting (preventing) and causing some type of harm, they are in essence violating a right or privilege without due process.
                              I was given a good piece of advise with regards to the Marine Corps and LEOSA, since there is a valid MOU. "Argue less with those who think they know, and just do what has been agreed upon".
                              Absolutely, these clowns try to get you hemmed up, add their name to the follow on lawsuit. We do not belong to the USMC 24/7, they have zero say what you do off the clock. Short of negative contacts with outside LE and getting arrested, its none of their business.

                              It is sad, but most retired Marines in higher MCCLEP positions have no clue about things that were already negotiated with HQMC. You don't have to convince them, just wait until they try to discipline someone and let your union stewards tear it up. I see this is your first post, welcome! How long have you served as a "Civilian Marine" in our beloved Corps?

                              Comment

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