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  • #91
    Originally posted by statebear View Post
    The Sarge is actually correct "some" civilian agencies hire LEOs at the same age......

    I believe the Iowa State Patrol/Capital Patrol hires 18 year olds to work at the Capital Patrol. Not sure what their laws are concerning peace officer's age, over there.

    Maybe, Iowa #1603 can chime in.....I remember discussing this on the Iowa forums with some Troopers there a while back.

    But I'll venture to say it is few and far between, most States require LEOs to be 21.

    Either way, the training and vetting is far beyond what an active duty military LEO gets IMO and experience. You are correct, about the services being a starting point and a good place to get one's feet wet in LE. I also agree having it on your resume isn't enough to instantly get you hired when you get out and try to apply with civilian agencies. Maturity, common sense and an all around sense of what is right and wrong are big virtues civilian LE agencies look at when hiring folks. With that said, if I had to do it over, I would not have done anything differently, my time in the AF gave me good experiences and I was fortunate enough get hired on after I ETSed and being prior service gave me a good foundation to be trained from. Unfortunately it's been my experience too may former service members ETS with the arrogant mindset that, that they will automatically get hired and end up running and gunning on the streets with only whatever training they received in the military. What they fail to realize , is that 's its a whole different ball game outside he gates and some end up finding that out he hard way.....
    I didn't know the age thing, that surprises me, but every state is different.

    I couldn't agree with you more about the last part of your reply. Arrogance outside those gates (if they were "Unlucky" enough to get hired on with little to no further training), at the very least would end up costing them there job or worst case scenario their life or the life of another officer with them :'-(

    That is the Main reason I try to remember every day I go to class, that I am no better trained in 95% of these academic areas than the rest of the class and I keep my story telling to a minimum, my bragging about anything virtually non-existent, and my answering of questions to waiting to give others a chance to answer first, even when I know the answer, simply because I do not want to give the impression that i think "I am all that" to anyone. (unlike a few of the county Jailers in the class o__O that apparently think since they already work for the SO and the SO is the main backer of the academy that they are the "privileged/chosen" ones. I just smile and keep scoring high on tests while there ego's take repeated hits when they fail or nearly fail. No criticism to them is needed...they do enough damage on their own. ;-)
    Dear Mr. Borelli (Site Admin), PRESS HARD 4 COPIES, HAVE A NICE DAY!!!

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by JEFFSGTP View Post
      That is the Main reason I try to remember every day I go to class, that I am no better trained in 95% of these academic areas than the rest of the class and I keep my story telling to a minimum, my bragging about anything virtually non-existent, and my answering of questions to waiting to give others a chance to answer first, even when I know the answer, simply because I do not want to give the impression that i think "I am all that" to anyone. (unlike a few of the county Jailers in the class o__O that apparently think since they already work for the SO and the SO is the main backer of the academy that they are the "privileged/chosen" ones. I just smile and keep scoring high on tests while there ego's take repeated hits when they fail or nearly fail. No criticism to them is needed...they do enough damage on their own. ;-)
      Been there done that twice.....more so at my last academy. I had 4 years AF SP and 5 years city PD experience when I reported to my last academy. You definitely have the right mindset. I was the same way my last go around, I kept my mouth shut and only answered questions specifically addressed to me. I got treated like dirt just like everyone else and didn't expect any favors or slack to be cut to me, because of my prior experience.
      Most "reputable" academy instructors will get familiar with all their recruit's backgrounds, prior to the start of the academy, as way of knowing your strengths and weakness. Your instructors probably have already have picked up on your humbleness and it will pay you dividends in the long run.

      As far as those jailers go.......keep handling your own business......sounds like they will weed themselves out....

      Keep your head up and good luck!

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by statebear View Post

        I believe the Iowa State Patrol/Capital Patrol hires 18 year olds to work at the Capital Patrol. Not sure what their laws are concerning peace officer's age, over there.

        Maybe, Iowa #1603 can chime in.....I remember discussing this on the Iowa forums with some Troopers there a while back.

        .
        Yes you can become an Iowa LEO at age 18
        http://www.legis.state.ia.us/ACO/IAC...m#rule_501_2_1

        501—2.1(80B) General requirements for law enforcement officers. In no case shall any person hereafter be selected or appointed as a law enforcement officer unless the person:

        2.1(1) Is a citizen of the United States and a resident of Iowa or intends to become a resident upon being employed; provided that, with the approval of the Iowa law enforcement academy council, a city located on a state border that is within a standard metropolitan statistical area may allow officers to reside in an adjacent state within that statistical area upon written application by the agency administrator to the council showing substantial reason and documenting undue hardship. Railway special agents who are approved by the commissioner of public safety as special agents of the department shall be exempt from the Iowa residency requirement.

        2.1(2) Is 18 years of age at the time of appointment.



        And statebear is correct----------------it doesn't happen much anymore.


        The ISP really doesn't hire at 18 (even though it is in the rules)..............they are getting way too many college educated (AA or BA) applicants to hire anyone that young.

        Some smaller agencies might --------------------but I haven't heard of an 18 yr old in the last 20 yrs.

        State Corrections doesn't even hire many at 18 anymore..........due to many highly educated/experienced applicants.
        Last edited by Iowa #1603; 06-30-2011, 12:28 PM.
        Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

        My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

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        • #94
          The Military Police Corps (MP, SF/SP, MA) will never get statutory powers of arrest. Why? because they dont need it, they've been doing the job for decades without it and it works fine. And I know why people "want" it...so they can carry off duty but at the end of the day the military doesnt want its enlisted folks carrying firearms with a military issued police ID off duty. If you wanna carry off duty get a ccw permit and do it that way.
          Good Enough For Government Work.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
            The ISP really doesn't hire at 18 (even though it is in the rules)..............they are getting way too many college educated (AA or BA) applicants to hire anyone that young.

            Some smaller agencies might --------------------but I haven't heard of an 18 yr old in the last 20 yrs.

            State Corrections doesn't even hire many at 18 anymore..........due to many highly educated/experienced applicants.
            Thanks 1603, I remember us talking about this a while back, but I couldn't remember he specifics.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by blaze76 View Post
              The Military Police Corps (MP, SF/SP, MA) will never get statutory powers of arrest. Why? because they dont need it, they've been doing the job for decades without it and it works fine.
              I remember doling out 1805s' to civilians on base with no problems. I even arrested or apprehended one, (whatever you want to call it) at one of the gates for refusing to identify or follow orders to not come on base. Took him down to the SP squadron processed him and if I remember correctly he was released with a magistrate summons. Ended up getting subpoenaed to court on it in the magistrate court on Ft. Dix a few months later. I remember testifying, but don't remember if he was convicted of it or convicted of anything for that matter. Either way, he was handcuffed and taken into to custody just like anybody else would have been outside the gates by civilian police. So like you, I wonder why active military LEOs need statutory powers of arrest.........

              If it's to pack a heat off-duty/off base.........they can get a CCW permit and carry all they want.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by statebear View Post
                Thanks 1603, I remember us talking about this a while back, but I couldn't remember he specifics.
                NP......I normally stay out of the military area since I know crap about it-------but I did a search on my screen name and got a hit!!!!
                Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by statebear View Post
                  I remember doling out 1805s' to civilians on base with no problems. I even arrested or apprehended one, (whatever you want to call it) at one of the gates for refusing to identify or follow orders to not come on base. Took him down to the SP squadron processed him and if I remember correctly he was released with a magistrate summons. Ended up getting subpoenaed to court on it in the magistrate court on Ft. Dix a few months later. I remember testifying, but don't remember if he was convicted of it or convicted of anything for that matter. Either way, he was handcuffed and taken into to custody just like anybody else would have been outside the gates by civilian police. So like you, I wonder why active military LEOs need statutory powers of arrest.........

                  If it's to pack a heat off-duty/off base.........they can get a CCW permit and carry all they want.
                  I think the disconnect is in how the Military Branches go about differentiating between, "combat support" and Law Enforcement. "Combat Support" MP's/soldiers (MP is generic for all branches "Military Police" here), perform missions such as, convoy security, route clearance, PSD, cordon and search, detainee ops, internment & resettlement, etc., and so forth. Base Security and Law Enforcement in the CONUS, is a much more nuanced and technical arena which requires maturity, common sense, training, training, and more training.

                  The Army has recently began a standardized program, where an MP whom is performing LE duties CONUS, must go through a yearly certification in standardized Law Enforcement TTP's. This is a great start, but I still think it's lacking. I think the MP OSUT is more than adequate for MP soldiers whom will be training to deploy OCONUS to support and carry out missions in war. There needs to be a litmus, where an MP must have certain bonifides before ever conducting LE on a domestic post/base.

                  IMO, the MP needs to be at least an E-4, at least 21 years of age, no derogatory data in his/her file, and then attend a full and proper Police Academy (USACPA anyone?). Also, an MP should be able to make a career out of being strictly Base/Post LE. This could be accomplished by making a separate MOS. Sort of like CID, or Internment Resettlement. Aside from doing security guard work, I just don't think an 18 year old person has the necessary where-with-all, to be an effective Law Enforcer in today's dynamic clime. Not to mention, that the LE pros whom are seasoned in the Military get a constant black eye, and two hands tied behind their back because of the Military's way of dealing with groups of individuals and not the individual proper (the lowest common denominator, corporal punishment etc.).

                  This negative treatment bleeds over not only to the enlisted/officer side of the house, but also to the Civilian Police as well. Many of whom, are very experienced, retired cops from local departments, or have other Law Enforcement experience. If you can't trust an individual with a firearm off duty, then you cannot trust that same individual carrying one on duty as well. The firearms qualifications for MP's (and soldiers in general) blow State CCW standards out of the water. The problem is not in the firearms training, it is in the arming and equipping of sub-par, un-vetted, "Law Enforcement Officers."

                  This is slowly happening, with the accreditation of USACPA by FLETA, and the other sister services trying to gain the same recognition. However, this is only addressing the Civilian equation and not the MP one, and MP's are still running the roads in many places. I think MP's have a place in CONUS LE, but I strongly feel that more due diligence is needed in grooming those MP's up to a national standard. Anything else is haphazard, and unacceptable! I heard an MP tell a group of people today, how he was "allowed back in servicewith a moral waiver, after having been discharged for failing his rehab program!" Are you serious! Really?! This individual has a clearance, and is running the roads? Unfortunately, yes he is. This is unacceptable.
                  The post above does not constitute legal advice, nor should be construed as such. These are the private opinions of a private citizen and do not represent the opinion nor official capacity of any law enforcement agency.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by JEFFSGTP
                    Most of the ones I would trust to carry off base were old enough to have and usually did have a CHL/CCW permit. The ones crying for the "right to carry off base without it" were usually the ones that were too young to obtain a CHL/CCW (21YOA here in TX and guessing most every other places as well) and I would not have wanted them to have one, the maturity level just isn't there. Heck I had to apprehend a fellow officer once because she got into a huge argument with her "girl" friend (was under don't ask, don't tell at that time) on duty and pulled her M9 on her. That was the last time she ever carried a firearm in the Military...and she was prior to that a model troop, just some things there is NO recovering from when your maturity level isn't there to tell you "Hey this is a really bad idea...Don't Do It!!!"

                    The only caveat I will add to that is a lot of military don't get a CHL/CCW permit for the simple fact it is a hastle if you live on base/post because you have to stop, de-arm, clear the weapon and store it where its not readily accessible prior to coming on base. Most that live off base and wanted to carry got the permit and did. Or they would get the permit but never carry because of the hastle. Prior to 9-11-01 it was probably easy to "get by" with just carrying to the house, post 9-11-01 with the random searches, etc...its too risky and could very likely be a career ending move if you get caught with it depending on your chain of command.
                    Yeah, I can understand that, now that you mention it I do remember folks who lived in the dorms having to store their weapons in our armory and having to sign them in and out. Since you mentioned “storing it where it’s not readily accessible prior to coming on base.” I’m guessing now they can take it home on base without having to turn it in?

                    As far as that female pulling her M-9 on her g-friend, well stuff like that happens everywhere. Some folks slip through the cracks or flat out have brain farts and forget to use common sense. The media does a good job of reporting every time an LEO screws up. Unfortunately the stupidity of a few is a black eye on all of us. I mean look at Seattle...I haven’t taken the time to read the article, but the headline is, “Seattle Police investigate unattended rifle.” Every citizen now is going to lump all of us as idiots who leave weapons unsecured lying around. Crap happens.....no body is perfect...and it’s unfortunate we all have the pay the price.

                    But, with the proper vetting, screening and training I don’t see a problem with DoD LEOs being able to carry off-duty. As a matter of a fact it’s long overdue, but hey for the time being it is what it is and if working at a post/base is your cup tea, more power to you, you have my respect and courtesy whenever I run into you. It is a very honorable duty to protect those that protect us! However, if having discretion and the freedom to make your own decisions is what your looking for then maybe folks should do what you are doing and get on with a city, county or state agency. Otherwise, I don’t think the military’s position on off-duty carry, base commander influence and all around micro-management, is going to change anytime soon.

                    For those you sticking it out and fighting the good fight, good luck and God’s speed, for the rest of you...................we are hiring!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by statebear View Post
                      YeAs far as that female pulling her M-9 on her g-friend, well stuff like that happens everywhere.
                      Errr...get with the Pentagon Police on that one.... One of their SGTs that worked IA got pizzed off at her lady friend and did something along those lines.....and got arrested by Prince William County VA about 4 years ago.....

                      Opps.......

                      Comment


                      • In reference to DAF Police (and applicable to other branches as well) in Illinois, aren't they considered "peace officers" under Public Act 95-1007? If so, "peace officers" are generally covered to carry concealed/off-duty in the state (if not statewide then muni-by-muni). I'm not making an iron clad affirmation of this, but asking if anyone has an opinion on this? The reason being, otherwise DOD LEOs cannot carry off-duty CCW due to this goof state not having a CCW permit. (Note: This is of course, separate from a LEOSA opinion, H.R. 324, etc.)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ops View Post
                          IMO, the MP needs to be at least an E-4, at least 21 years of age, no derogatory data in his/her file, and then attend a full and proper Police Academy (USACPA anyone?). Also, an MP should be able to make a career out of being strictly Base/Post LE. This could be accomplished by making a separate MOS. Sort of like CID, or Internment Resettlement. Aside from doing security guard work, I just don't think an 18 year old person has the necessary where-with-all, to be an effective Law Enforcer in today's dynamic clime. Not to mention, that the LE pros whom are seasoned in the Military get a constant black eye, and two hands tied behind their back because of the Military's way of dealing with groups of individuals and not the individual proper (the lowest common denominator, corporal punishment etc.).

                          This negative treatment bleeds over not only to the enlisted/officer side of the house, but also to the Civilian Police as well. Many of whom, are very experienced, retired cops from local departments, or have other Law Enforcement experience. If you can't trust an individual with a firearm off duty, then you cannot trust that same individual carrying one on duty as well. The firearms qualifications for MP's (and soldiers in general) blow State CCW standards out of the water. The problem is not in the firearms training, it is in the arming and equipping of sub-par, un-vetted, "Law Enforcement Officers."

                          This is slowly happening, with the accreditation of USACPA by FLETA, and the other sister services trying to gain the same recognition. However, this is only addressing the Civilian equation and not the MP one, and MP's are still running the roads in many places. I think MP's have a place in CONUS LE, but I strongly feel that more due diligence is needed in grooming those MP's up to a national standard. Anything else is haphazard, and unacceptable! I heard an MP tell a group of people today, how he was "allowed back in servicewith a moral waiver, after having been discharged for failing his rehab program!" Are you serious! Really?! This individual has a clearance, and is running the roads? Unfortunately, yes he is. This is unacceptable.
                          I missed your post ops, looks liked we posted right at the same time.....

                          Couldn’t agree with you more!

                          I agree with a minimum age requirement and proper vetting for any LE MOS in the services. The AF used to have a separate career field for LE, which I was part of, until they merged it with the Security field in 1997. (I will refrain from getting on my soapbox on that one.) But, my fellow LE airman and I strictly concentrated our efforts on LE operations and in my opinion the AF as a whole was better served that way.

                          I believe the Navy had a deal where back in the day you had to be E-4 or above to be an MA.

                          As far as the MP you spoke of..................I’m not surprised at all.......the services are notorious for telling a clean record, upstanding enlistee, there aren’t any openings for MP, AFSF or MA, but then turnaround and grant a waiver to some D-bag instead.

                          Having to work with some of these clowns who were let in the military and subsequently armed with the authority to enforce laws and regulations, is what solidified my decision to punch out after my enlistment was up. I have zero tolerance for folks who do not have the ethics, common sense, pride or the where-with-all to do my job. I rather work by myself then with 10 clowns who aren’t committed to the cause.

                          I believe Coach Singletary said it best:

                          Last edited by statebear; 07-02-2011, 11:53 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Bearcat357 View Post
                            Errr...get with the Pentagon Police on that one.... One of their SGTs that worked IA got pizzed off at her lady friend and did something along those lines.....and got arrested by Prince William County VA about 4 years ago.....
                            And rightly so........

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by I0347 View Post
                              In reference to DAF Police (and applicable to other branches as well) in Illinois, aren't they considered "peace officers" under Public Act 95-1007? If so, "peace officers" are generally covered to carry concealed/off-duty in the state (if not statewide then muni-by-muni). I'm not making an iron clad affirmation of this, but asking if anyone has an opinion on this? The reason being, otherwise DOD LEOs cannot carry off-duty CCW due to this goof state not having a CCW permit. (Note: This is of course, separate from a LEOSA opinion, H.R. 324, etc.)
                              That's been talked about on here before.......Maryland has the same deal there. From what I have gathered on here, it basically boils down to DoD saying you can't carry off-duty on their creds. Which leaves a DoD guy pretty much screwed in MD, because the State Police won't isssue them a CCW, based on State law regonizing them as LEOs.

                              I could be wrong....

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by statebear View Post
                                And rightly so........
                                Yeap.... Glad to see she went to jail and hope she is still there....as she wasn't right in the head and it gave PFPA a huge black eye....

                                Comment

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