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Statutory Powers of Arrest for MP's?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Raidergx View Post
    They let vets get in after 37, just requires a waiver from the Regional office. We had a guy in our class that was 44 with 9 years active duty army.
    Interesting....I applying for a Physical Security job out here and got crapped canned because of my age......

    Originally posted by Raidergx View Post
    All BOP workers are Correctional workers first.
    Yes they are. I didn't know that till my sister applied for a Special Education job at Leavenworth and they told her that.....she opted to keep the job she had.....

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Raidergx View Post
      I firmly believe DOD police will get LEO pay and retirement in the next 3 to 5 years. There is no way how a CO at the federal prison gets it, and actual cops don't. Its coming. However these agencies getting off cheap with 5 week academies is going to have to come to an end and actually send people to a real police academy.
      Wow. Aren't you a CO getting LE Pay? And hard to believe that CO's at the BOP can carry off duty as well huh?

      And aren't you going to work for one of these "DOD" agencies that have a 5 week academy that you so call "weak"? Then why work thhere?

      DOD/DON/DOA, will not get LE retirement, etc as it was already stated. That's just like the VA police attempting to get it as well. I don't see that happening.
      Last edited by irishlad2nv; 05-18-2011, 06:48 PM.
      "An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded."

      Comment


      • #18
        Sorry, I’m going to have to call BS on this. Sure the command is putting it out; just like ours throws out crap all the time that is a lie. This is why I call BS, I am a member of a group that is working with several different Unions, and police organizations to get HR 324 passed, we have been up on the hill talking to dam near all members of both houses, we have several in both houses that we are in constant contact with, not only the staffers, but direct communication with the representative themselves. And while this bill is slowly making progress, and has moved farther this year than in any year in the past that it was introduced, it still has a ways to go. One of the biggest hurdles is the five sided puzzle palace of buffoonery aka D.O.D , there are several studies that they have done for congress stating that there is no need for this change, status quoi is sufficient. There is fierce position to this type of change in other words. Now then several of the representatives are all for getting statutory powers for the civilians but would not and will not support it for the Military, sorry to the military but that are the way it is, And I can agree. the duties of an MP are very broad, to give a blanked statutory authority and CCW (aka LESOA) to all MP’s is asking for serious trouble, I could write several long posts justifying my opinion, might, might not one day, but I digress. Other reasons that this is opposed is that it is felt that this would in fact violate PCA, in that it creates a national police force, and let’s face it there are many in the general public that are ignorant and would buy into that premise, we all know that is reality, but yet know it is the farthest from the truth. Powers of arrest for the civilians Yes, military NO, LESOA for military NO, civilians YES. USAMPS (and sister branch equivalent) would have to seriously change everything in AIT it would be well over 30 weeks, then you would have to re train those that are already in, a monumental task, that would be very costly. Not to mention do you seriously thing it is a wise decision to give a 17, 18, 19 year old all that power? Your average department will not touch you until you are 21 (I know there are a few that will at 18 but there are only a few), there are reasons for that, go to ask a cop and see all the crack heads that want to be a cop, Christ ¾ sadly would make it into the military they score high enough on certain parts of the ASVB test and bam they are an MP, really that is what we want? no sorry like I said this is a BS rumor, nothing more……………..Now before any of you Military guys get all butt hurt, I am not bashing you I work with some great soldiers that I would take as backup any day, and or protect with my life if needed, but I am just putting this into a realistic perspective.
        It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Bearcat357 View Post
          Interesting....I applying for a Physical Security job out here and got crapped canned because of my age.......
          No dude they crapped canned you because you and NotASoonerFan played with your "trains" together.
          It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by DACP View Post
            No dude they crapped canned you because you and NotASoonerFan played with your "trains" together.
            Thanks ***....

            Actually, from seeing JD's postings....I think you and him have something going on.....

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Bearcat357 View Post
              Unless Congress mandates....there is no way DOD will allow 0083s to get LEO pay/20 year retirement....No way.... Cost them way to much money...... That money could be better spent on training and equipment.......especially when most younger folks use it as a stepping stone......

              I do think with the FOPs help they will get it amended to allow DOD to carry off-duty....but thats it...... Especially with the budget today.... As there are talks of laying off DOD Cops and putting MPs back on the street at a lot of places right now....
              Originally posted by irishlad2nv View Post
              DOD/DON/DOA, will not get LE retirement, etc as it was already stated. That's just like the VA police attempting to get it as well. I don't see that happening.
              HR 327 is now introduced at the Senate Level..........FOP Top Priority Introduced in the Senate

              Chuck Canterbury, National President of the Fraternal Order of Police, applauded the introduction of S.985, the "Law Enforcement Officers' Retirement Equity Act."

              "Nearly 30,000 Federal law enforcement officers do not receive equal status with their Federal law enforcement colleagues under current pay and retirement laws of the government they so proudly serve," Canterbury said.

              This legislation, introduced by Senator Barbara Mikulski (D-MD), would provide these brave men and women with 6(c) benefits and the ability to retire after twenty (20) years of service at the age of fifty (50), or twenty-five (25) years of service at any age. This is the same benefit currently received by most criminal investigators and Federal law enforcement officers in several agencies. This legislation will also provide for savings in training costs, improve recruitment and retention of qualified officers, and enhance public safety.

              "These dedicated men and women put their lives on the line as law enforcement officers for different agencies throughout the Federal government," Canterbury said. "Agencies like the Department of Defense and Armed Services, Veterans Affairs, FBI, U.S. Postal Police, Federal Protective Service, National Institute of Health, US Mint, and the Bureau of Printing and Engraving. They serve as our Federal government's first line of defense, and are asked to face the same hazards as their State and local counterparts. When one of them falls in the line of duty, their names are added to the National Law Enforcement Officers' Memorial here in Washington, DC."

              "Since the OPM will not amend its outdated LEO definition and the judicial review process has failed, the best and fairest remedy to this injustice is legislation amending U.S. Code to grant all GS-0083 officers LEO status," Canterbury said. "We strongly endorse the passage of this bill and applaud the efforts of Senator Mikulski on the important issue of Federal retirement."
              It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Bearcat357 View Post
                Unless Congress mandates....there is no way DOD will allow 0083s to get LEO pay/20 year retirement....No way.... Cost them way to much money...... That money could be better spent on training and equipment.......especially when most younger folks use it as a stepping stone......

                I do think with the FOPs help they will get it amended to allow DOD to carry off-duty....but thats it...... Especially with the budget today.... As there are talks of laying off DOD Cops and putting MPs back on the street at a lot of places right now....
                Perhaps someone should point out to them the high cost of a 10 week academy coupled with the turnover and attrition rate. I would wager that if they improved training, gave us LEO pay / retirement / CCW, and in general treated us like professionals instead of 19 year old Lcpls, they would see a huge increase in morale and a corresponding drop in attrition.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Repubs will never go for it since a Dem started it....especially with the budget as jacked as it is.....


                  Just sayin......

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    So can I arrest people or not?

                    or carry concealed?

                    Crap, I'm lost...

                    M-22
                    “All men dream...... But not equally..
                    Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
                    but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
                    for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

                    TE Lawrence

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by M-11 View Post
                      So can I arrest people or not?

                      or carry concealed?

                      Crap, I'm lost...

                      M-22
                      You're in Jersey....I'd carry no matter what...!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        And How!

                        I live 9 miles from Camden.

                        M-11
                        “All men dream...... But not equally..
                        Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
                        but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
                        for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

                        TE Lawrence

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Bearcat357 View Post
                          Thanks ***....

                          Actually, from seeing JD's postings....I think you and him have something going on.....
                          what ever looser.
                          It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Does this apply to Active Duty only or National Guard as well? As a "Citizen-Soldier" I know I can get a CCW, but would I be able to carry "on-base" too? I have trouble believing any of this to be true anyways tho-MP's arresting Civilians "Off-Base"? How does this affect "Posse-Comatatis",(sp?)? Just thinking......

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by MP-M5103 View Post
                              Does this apply to Active Duty only or National Guard as well? As a "Citizen-Soldier" I know I can get a CCW, but would I be able to carry "on-base" too? I have trouble believing any of this to be true anyways tho-MP's arresting Civilians "Off-Base"? How does this affect "Posse-Comatatis",(sp?)? Just thinking......
                              NO.....it would only cover Civilian Police Officers that work on Military Installations.......

                              MPs can't and will never be allowed ot arrest civilians off-base......

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by MP-M5103 View Post
                                Does this apply to Active Duty only or National Guard as well? As a "Citizen-Soldier" I know I can get a CCW, but would I be able to carry "on-base" too? I have trouble believing any of this to be true anyways tho-MP's arresting Civilians "Off-Base"? How does this affect "Posse-Comatatis",(sp?)? Just thinking......
                                MP,

                                National Guard MP's (and all enlisted and commissioned soldiers) normally have State statutory arrest authority, when activated under the State Governor. For instance in Kentucky.

                                http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/038-00/420.PDF

                                "35.035 Apprehension of subject persons.
                                (1) Apprehension is the taking into custody of a person.
                                (2) Any officer, warrant officer or peace officer as defined in this chapter may
                                apprehend subject persons upon having probable cause to believe that an offense
                                has been committed and that the person apprehended committed it.
                                (3) Any enlisted person as defined in this chapter may apprehend subject persons upon
                                the direct verbal or written order of a commissioned officer or convening authority.
                                (4) No peace officer, jailer or other state officer shall demand or require payment of any
                                fee or charge of any nature for apprehending or placing in confinement any subject
                                person. However, such prohibition shall not apply to such fee or charge being
                                assessed against the subject person as a court cost or jail fee.
                                Effective: July 15, 1986
                                History: Amended 1986 Ky. Acts ch. 239, sec. 2, effective July 15, 1986. -- Created"

                                Wait I thought an "apprehension" was just a detention! lol

                                Again, MP's have always been able to arrest civilians off-base, but they must do so at their own peril, and in strict compliance with that State's "citizen's arrest clause". And don't expect to be backed by the military, either but, if an egregious felony or breach of peace is committed in your presence, or you learn of one happening near, but off-base, you will be the one whom has to look into the mirror to shave in the morning. I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror if say a State Trooper was being assaulted (off-base, and right outside the gate for instance), and was killed, and I could have responded and didn't. Blue is blue.

                                For instance, an MP or a military civilian counterpart, may go off post, while on duty, with all his/or her gear (weapon, cruiser etc.) to affect a citizen's arrest, and will be backed by the State, if done properly. Before, the "you'll be fired" band wagon jumps on here, I'll refer to Department of the Army pamphlet # 27-100-161 Which states thus:

                                http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_L...s/275085~1.pdf

                                "Nevertheless, there are times when military officials must assert their
                                authority beyond the jurisdictional boundaries of the installation. Onc e
                                they open the gate, however, their authority changes, and as the military’s
                                interest decreases, so does their authority. Without proper training and
                                clear guidelines on the extent of their authority, military law enforcement
                                officials-and their supervisors-run the risk of violating the Posse Comita-
                                t u s Act. Particularly in such areas as off-post housing deve lopment s ,
                                where loyalties to military personnel and family members run up against
                                the clear jurisdictional authority of civil law enforcement, military officials
                                must understand the parameters of their authority. This article shows that,
                                in many circumstances, military law enforcement officials d o in fact pos-
                                sess arrest authority
                                ; it also shows that this power is limited. With proper
                                training and guidance, however, military officials will find they have suf-
                                ficient authority to carry out their missions of maintaining law and order
                                on the installation and protecting military personnel and property."

                                Oh snap!
                                Last edited by ops; 05-19-2011, 01:15 AM.
                                The post above does not constitute legal advice, nor should be construed as such. These are the private opinions of a private citizen and do not represent the opinion nor official capacity of any law enforcement agency.

                                Comment

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