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  • Statutory Powers of Arrest for MP's?

    You read that correctly. Our chain of command is passing that statutory powers of arrest is one of the changes coming to the MP field in the next couple of years. They will confer it to 0083's as well when it does, and probably allow all Military LE (MP's and civilians) to CCW off duty if they so choose.

    This word is so far out in left field that I question it even more than the usual crap that is pushed down.

    Has anyone else heard anything about this? I personally feel that someone higher said something about CCW coming (via s. 1132) for civilian LE and someone else interpreted that to be statutory powers of arrest since they are brainwashed into thinking that is what is meant.

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    well my first thought about that is PCA for Military and I dont believe they will be able to circumvent that.
    as per the 0083's they are civilians and per the legislation the only thing holding us back is a twist of a word IE. apprehend VS arrest authority.
    if the lights go on someone is paying the bill.

    Comment


    • #3
      PCA was one of the first things I brought up in our brief. I was told that it wouldn't be a violation of PCA since we would only have SPA while aboard base and therefore within our jurisdiction. I was also briefed that this change would allow us to assist local LE off base when they call us.

      Like I said, far left field...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Marine0083 View Post
        PCA was one of the first things I brought up in our brief. I was told that it wouldn't be a violation of PCA since we would only have SPA while aboard base and therefore within our jurisdiction. I was also briefed that this change would allow us to assist local LE off base when they call us.

        Like I said, far left field...
        Very left field. There are agencies now that cannot do this. Some can, some can't. That would be great to allow you to leave base to assist, however, would state, county, locals laws or MOU's need to be re-written for this to go into effect? Would this change then allow all civilian LE agencies on a base (no matter) the security level to assist in a threat if need be?
        "An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded."

        Comment


        • #5
          Statutory powers of arrest for MLE would not conflict with the PCA. Conducting LE operations off-post with no military purpose nexus would. MP's (civilian and enlisted/commisioned) have been able to assist civilian law enforcement off post the entire time. They do so at their own peril, and as private citizens (with citizen's arrest authority only), but nonetheless, if there is a major felony/breach of peace off base, MP's can and do respond. SPA, would not violate PCA or allow MP's to go off post to conduct LE operations on the neighboring civilian populace. It would simply give them JURISDICTION, over civilians ON BASE. They already have authority over civilians on base, but must assimilate and kick the case to the local U.S Magistrate (no jurisdiction over civilians only title 10 military members). Giving expressed SPA to MP's would negate the "delegated" authority from the base commander (which is already very statutory,and delegated through title 10 U.S Code 809 (e), Title 50 U.S.C, and title 18 U.S.C S1382), and allow the individual MP, to make arrests and charges based on his own "office" and color of law, and not the Commander's "inherant authority", much to the consternation of the brass. Man I should teach at JAG.

          Yes, this is coming. It's been talked about at the puzzle palace for a few years now, along with allowing MLE Officers to carry concealed on base, and carrying a back up piece. Hard to believe huh?

          Title 10 U.S.C (UCMJ) is actually WORLDWIDE statutory powers. What is needed is better training, so MP private schmuketelly, doesn't get a big head, and get himself and organization in trouble. Simply telling MLE that they have no authority, and not giving them knowledge and training, based on irrational fears of liability, is a thing of the past.
          Last edited by ops; 05-18-2011, 03:55 AM.
          The post above does not constitute legal advice, nor should be construed as such. These are the private opinions of a private citizen and do not represent the opinion nor official capacity of any law enforcement agency.

          Comment


          • #6
            I can't really imagine this happening. But if it did, there would need to be way more training, and far higher standards for Mil LE.

            When I was an SP there was a guy who got non voul'ed to SP because he failed Chaplains Assistant training. I **** you not.

            M-11
            “All men dream...... But not equally..
            Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
            but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
            for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

            TE Lawrence

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by M-11 View Post
              I can't really imagine this happening. But if it did, there would need to be way more training, and far higher standards for Mil LE.

              When I was an SP there was a guy who got non voul'ed to SP because he failed Chaplains Assistant training. I **** you not.

              M-11
              I don't think this will be automatic upon graduating basic and AIT. I believe you'll have to be in a law and order unit and actually conducting LE operations. Much like Coast Guard Boarding officers. The MP Corps is already developing and fielding an annual LE training certification for LE units. This is much needed, and about time.

              http://shandidix.wordpress.com/2011/...certification/
              The post above does not constitute legal advice, nor should be construed as such. These are the private opinions of a private citizen and do not represent the opinion nor official capacity of any law enforcement agency.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by M-11 View Post
                When I was an SP there was a guy who got non voul'ed to SP because he failed Chaplains Assistant training. I **** you not.

                M-11
                AF SF guys have told me of First Shirts/CO's being tasked to run SF Units coming from all over the place........

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Marine0083 View Post
                  You read that correctly. Our chain of command is passing that statutory powers of arrest is one of the changes coming to the MP field in the next couple of years. They will confer it to 0083's as well when it does, and probably allow all Military LE (MP's and civilians) to CCW off duty if they so choose.

                  This word is so far out in left field that I question it even more than the usual crap that is pushed down.

                  Has anyone else heard anything about this? I personally feel that someone higher said something about CCW coming (via s. 1132) for civilian LE and someone else interpreted that to be statutory powers of arrest since they are brainwashed into thinking that is what is meant.

                  Thoughts?
                  There is a likely change to LEOSA (18 USC 926B and 926C) by way of a technical amendment to include the word “apprehension”, which according to DoD would unequivocally allow 0083’s working for the various DoD services the right to carry a personal firearm off duty. I attribute this to recent releases by the FOP on the topic.

                  As you may know, the FOP spearheaded the recent amendment to LEOSA to cover DoD Cops, Amtrak and the Federal Reserve Board. While DoD cops were already seen by most to be covered, the amendments language pretty much said any police or law enforcement officer working for the government; thereby closing the gap. What came up afterwards was the remaining language regarding statutory authority. As for Amtrak and the Fed, while they are quasi-federal employees, there was question as to if such status covered them under the original statutes language.

                  In regards to a separate statute that conveys statutory arrest authority beyond what currently exists under UCMJ and the MEJA (Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act) 18 USC 212, there is a Bill that would convey such within the confines of the United States. If such passes, there would be, as with any other provision of law that covers arrests, searches and such; a requirement that prior to implementation the DoD consult with the Attorney General to ensure compliance with applicable guidelines.
                  As an aside, there already exists statutory for civilians within DoD under 10 USC 1585, though such personnel are assigned exclusively to the various Defense Criminal Investigative Agencies (DCIOs) such as Army CID, Air Force OSI, NCIS and the DCIS. There are other authorities but this is the most common.

                  One major hurdle if you will to overcome will be public perception and the current thinking of some that by “empowering” the military to make arrests, there will be Martial Law. This is a chronically misplaces notion and without basis but one that is pervasive. While Martial Law has not seen implementation since WW2, some folks have a deep seated concern that this could happen and would fight it.

                  Another hurdle is the current mindset and perceptions within the community itself, but a topic I distance myself from.
                  Originally posted by SSD
                  It has long been the tradition on this forum and as well as professionally not to second guess or Monday morning QB the officer's who were actually on-scene and had to make the decision. That being said, I don't think that your discussion will go very far on this board.
                  Originally posted by Iowa #1603
                  And now you are arguing about not arguing..................

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It is my understanding that the FOP and AFGE (and others) have made Title 10 amending (HR 324), along with LEO retirement (HR 327) their priority this year for "DOD" civilian LEOs. Although an amendment to LEOSA ("arrest" to "apprehension") would be welcome, the statutory change is much more desired, and appears to have real momentum and support (and would put all arguments to rest). However, this does nothing to address such powers and considerations for active duty, military law enforcement. I'd like to see--at the very least--retired military police have coverage under LEOSA (or similiar act).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I firmly believe DOD police will get LEO pay and retirement in the next 3 to 5 years. There is no way how a CO at the federal prison gets it, and actual cops don't. Its coming. However these agencies getting off cheap with 5 week academies is going to have to come to an end and actually send people to a real police academy.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Raidergx View Post
                        I firmly believe DOD police will get LEO pay and retirement in the next 3 to 5 years.
                        Unless Congress mandates....there is no way DOD will allow 0083s to get LEO pay/20 year retirement....No way.... Cost them way to much money...... That money could be better spent on training and equipment.......especially when most younger folks use it as a stepping stone......

                        I do think with the FOPs help they will get it amended to allow DOD to carry off-duty....but thats it...... Especially with the budget today.... As there are talks of laying off DOD Cops and putting MPs back on the street at a lot of places right now....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Raidergx View Post
                          I firmly believe DOD police will get LEO pay and retirement in the next 3 to 5 years. There is no way how a CO at the federal prison gets it, and actual cops don't. Its coming. However these agencies getting off cheap with 5 week academies is going to have to come to an end and actually send people to a real police academy.
                          I actually read that some cooks in the federal prison system qualify for law enforcement pay and retirement. SMDH
                          Never ask a man if he served in the Marine Corps! If he earned the title "Marine" he will tell you, if he didn't, there is no need to embarrass him.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Re-Birth View Post
                            I actually read that some cooks in the federal prison system qualify for law enforcement pay and retirement. SMDH
                            Errr....everyone that works for BOP gets 20 year retirement..... Some jobs like Doctors/Nurses and others get exempt from applying after they are 37 because they are needed so badly.....

                            BOP doesn't let Vets apply after 37......

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              They let vets get in after 37, just requires a waiver from the Regional office. We had a guy in our class that was 44 with 9 years active duty army.

                              All BOP workers are Correctional workers first. Even HR reps, Cooks, Rec specs all qualify for LEO Pay and Retirement.

                              I guess the BOP had a way better lobbying group then DOD cops had in 2006.

                              Comment

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