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Listen to this 911 call on 8/2/2010 from the shooter in AA County, Md

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  • Listen to this 911 call on 8/2/2010 from the shooter in AA County, Md

    http://justiceforbearbear.wordpress.com/

    Is a Ft Myer, VA DOD Police Officer DA CIV (GS-7) authorized to carry his personal firearm concealed off duty in the state of maryland soley on his police badge and credentials?

    I have looked into HR 218 and DODI 5525.12 para 2.2.

    I say no. What say you?

    I see that Senate Bill 1132 has passed the Senate, but the House of Representatives has not even voted on it yet.

    Listen to the 911 call. He seems to definetly rely on his badge and creds.

  • #2
    He is not authorized by HR 218 to carry under DOD creds. Oddly accoruding to the statement from Ft Myer they support him for carrying his personal wepaon under his creds. Overall i imagine the DA will drop the weapon charge and if they do puruse any furher charges it will just be the animal cruelty.

    Personally i can't really support the officer to much here either. It's one thing if your off duty carrying under creds when its iffy and you shot a violent felon or stop a felony in progress, then you have everyones support. Instead though he shot a dog possibly attacking his dog. I mean COME ON even if he was good to go legally on everything, thats just a dumb move.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Paul554 View Post
      He is not authorized by HR 218 to carry under DOD creds. Oddly accoruding to the statement from Ft Myer they support him for carrying his personal wepaon under his creds. Overall i imagine the DA will drop the weapon charge and if they do puruse any furher charges it will just be the animal cruelty.

      Personally i can't really support the officer to much here either. It's one thing if your off duty carrying under creds when its iffy and you shot a violent felon or stop a felony in progress, then you have everyones support. Instead though he shot a dog possibly attacking his dog. I mean COME ON even if he was good to go legally on everything, thats just a dumb move.
      Pepper spray would have been a much wiser force option to utilize in that situation. In kind, I always carry a mark 4 with me when I take my dog to the doggy park for that very reason. I also utilize a sonic pet trainer with great affect with canines who get "too close". It's very easy to Monday morning quarterback his decision to utilize deadly force on "Bear-Bear". I still cannot fully support nor condemn the man for his actions. I simply hope it doesn't come back to bight the fourth point of contact, for the rest of us in a similar proffesional vein. I do believe in both VA and MD "DoD" Police Officers are considered "Peace Officers" and can carry on their creds, based on State and NOT Federal laws.

      http://law.justia.com/virginia/codes...0/19.2-12.html

      "19.2-12. Who are conservators of the peace.

      Every judge and attorney for the Commonwealth throughout the Commonwealth and every magistrate within the geographical area for which he is appointed or elected, shall be a conservator of the peace. In addition, every commissioner in chancery, while sitting as such commissioner; any special agent or law-enforcement officer of the United States Department of Justice, National Marine Fisheries Service of the United States Department of Commerce, Department of Treasury, Department of Agriculture, Department of Defense, Department of State, Office of the Inspector General of the Department of Transportation, Department of Homeland Security, and Department of Interior; any inspector, law-enforcement official or police personnel of the United States Postal Inspection Service; any United States marshal or deputy United States marshal whose duties involve the enforcement of the criminal laws of the United States; any officer of the Virginia Marine Police; any criminal investigator of the Department of Professional and Occupational Regulation, who meets the minimum law-enforcement training requirements established by the Department of Criminal Justice Services for in-service training; any criminal investigator of the United States Department of Labor; any special agent of the United States Naval Criminal Investigative Service, and any special agent of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, shall be a conservator of the peace, while engaged in the performance of their official duties.

      (Code 1950, � 19.1-20; 1960, c. 366; 1968, c. 639; 1972, c. 549; 1975, c. 495; 1978, c. 697; 1981, cc. 572, 587; 1990, c. 558; 1991, cc. 74, 338; 1994, cc. 375, 569, 626; 1997, c. 34; 2001, cc. 3, 31; 2002, cc. 86, 605, 789; 2004, c. 1009; 2005, c. 372; 2006, c. 88.)"
      Last edited by ops; 08-16-2010, 07:38 PM.
      The post above does not constitute legal advice, nor should be construed as such. These are the private opinions of a private citizen and do not represent the opinion nor official capacity of any law enforcement agency.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ops View Post
        Pepper spray would have been a much wiser force option to utilize in that situation. In kind, I always carry a mark 4 with me when I take my dog to the doggy park for that very reason. I also utilize a sonic pet trainer with great affect with canines who get "too close". It's very easy to Monday morning quarterback his decision to utilize deadly force on "Bear-Bear". I still cannot fully support nor condemn the man for his actions. I simply hope it doesn't come back to bight the fourth point of contact, for the rest of us in a similar proffesional vein. I do believe in both VA and MD "DoD" Police Officers are considered "Peace Officers" and can carry on their creds, based on State and NOT Federal laws.

        http://law.justia.com/virginia/codes...0/19.2-12.html

        "19.2-12. Who are conservators of the peace.

        Every judge and attorney for the Commonwealth throughout the Commonwealth and every magistrate within the geographical area for which he is appointed or elected, shall be a conservator of the peace. In addition, every commissioner in chancery, while sitting as such commissioner; any special agent or law-enforcement officer of the United States Department of Justice, National Marine Fisheries Service of the United States Department of Commerce, Department of Treasury, Department of Agriculture, Department of Defense, Department of State, Office of the Inspector General of the Department of Transportation, Department of Homeland Security, and Department of Interior; any inspector, law-enforcement official or police personnel of the United States Postal Inspection Service; any United States marshal or deputy United States marshal whose duties involve the enforcement of the criminal laws of the United States; any officer of the Virginia Marine Police; any criminal investigator of the Department of Professional and Occupational Regulation, who meets the minimum law-enforcement training requirements established by the Department of Criminal Justice Services for in-service training; any criminal investigator of the United States Department of Labor; any special agent of the United States Naval Criminal Investigative Service, and any special agent of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, shall be a conservator of the peace, while engaged in the performance of their official duties.

        (Code 1950, � 19.1-20; 1960, c. 366; 1968, c. 639; 1972, c. 549; 1975, c. 495; 1978, c. 697; 1981, cc. 572, 587; 1990, c. 558; 1991, cc. 74, 338; 1994, cc. 375, 569, 626; 1997, c. 34; 2001, cc. 3, 31; 2002, cc. 86, 605, 789; 2004, c. 1009; 2005, c. 372; 2006, c. 88.)"
        I knew VA considered DOD as peace officers, i have no idea about Maryland though or how strick their gun laws are. I guess my main thing is, i just CANT understand how a dog attacking another dog warrents deadly force. To me, while it is tragic, no human life is endangered and shooting the dog just brings to many variables into the situation. I know people get attached to their pets and such but show me one use of force chart or law that says you can utalize deadly force to stop animals from attacking each other.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Paul554 View Post
          I knew VA considered DOD as peace officers, i have no idea about Maryland though or how strick their gun laws are. I guess my main thing is, i just CANT understand how a dog attacking another dog warrents deadly force. To me, while it is tragic, no human life is endangered and shooting the dog just brings to many variables into the situation. I know people get attached to their pets and such but show me one use of force chart or law that says you can utalize deadly force to stop animals from attacking each other.
          I don't know the reliability of this information but I came across this:

          http://www.cga.ct.gov/2010/rpt/2010-R-0042.htm

          "Maryland
          No (except that Homeland Security and Secret Service agents are peace officers for a very limited purpose, and other federal law enforcement officers have some police powers)
          1. Federal law enforcement officers authorized to make arrests and carry firearms in the performance of their duties
          2. Homeland Security and Secret Service agents
          May make arrest and execute search warrants under state law in specified situations and have the same legal status, protections, and immunity as Maryland police
          Md. Code Ann. §§ 2-104 & 10-620"
          The post above does not constitute legal advice, nor should be construed as such. These are the private opinions of a private citizen and do not represent the opinion nor official capacity of any law enforcement agency.

          Comment


          • #6
            This is what sucks about this issue, DOD has put their head in the sand on this issue for way to long, and guidance is post by post, each officer has a different take on the law. Long ago this needed to be decided by the courts, or the law changed to include us. Now sadly it will get its day in court for some stupid crap, not Officer XXX saved the day and is getting persecuted lets all stand behind him and right a wrong, nope it is sorry buddy you are on your own on this one. If you are going to make case law make it good case law, Now congress will you PLEASE get off your *** and vote this dam thing into law.
            It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

            Comment


            • #7
              My take....

              A. Rail is a Active Duty MP from TX trolling.... He's made 3 posts thus far....in various areas of the board....all on this subject....

              B. None of us were there.... The County PD cleared the guy but then came back and re-opened things due to public outcry.....

              C. One of the Sheriff's candidates in that County is making a stink as well....Only issue is that the way things are set up, he couldn't investigate it like he thinks he can. Yeah, I'd vote for him....

              D. Nice to see the Command/DES is backing him. Not sure how that will go over with OMPG or IMCOM.....or a host of other .Mil folks who will eventually stick their noses into this....

              E. As stated, Congress needs to get off their ****ing asses and pass the legislation in front of them....and this would be a moot point....

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by RAIL View Post
                http://justiceforbearbear.wordpress.com/

                Is a Ft Myer, VA DOD Police Officer DA CIV (GS-7) authorized to carry his personal firearm concealed off duty in the state of maryland soley on his police badge and credentials?

                I have looked into HR 218 and DODI 5525.12 para 2.2.

                I say no. What say you?

                I see that Senate Bill 1132 has passed the Senate, but the House of Representatives has not even voted on it yet.

                Listen to the 911 call. He seems to definetly rely on his badge and creds.
                Three posts, all on the same subject.

                You have an agenda.

                Either BearBear was your dog, or you are an MP who doesn't like civilian cops on your base. Perhaps their knowledge / training /experience highlights your own deficiencies?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Marine0083 View Post
                  Three posts, all on the same subject.

                  You have an agenda.

                  Either BearBear was your dog, or you are an MP who doesn't like civilian cops on your base. Perhaps their knowledge / training /experience highlights your own deficiencies?
                  The first ten DOD cops hired where I was stationed were retired military cops.....................talk about taking a step back, one of my former flight chiefs was now working the gate ever night and calling me for bathroom breaks. Awkward..........
                  Preliminary Background Check = Pass
                  Civil Service Test = Pass
                  Physical Fitness Test = Pass
                  Police Interview Board = Pass
                  Civil Service Interview Board = Pass
                  List Complied = I'm #2
                  Background = Pass
                  Chief/Admin Board = Pass
                  Offer of Employment = Given and Accepted
                  Physical/Psych Exam = Pass
                  Drug Screen = Pass
                  Start Date = Dec 13
                  Academy Date (I'm shooting for) = 2 Jan 11

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well the AG and JAG both said he was good to go with his off duty weapon. But he is being charged w/ two misdemeanors.

                    http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/feat...bear_case.html
                    Dispatch, we have a 9-11, Armed Robbery in progress. Seay's Surplus Store, corner People's Drive and 124th Street.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bearcat357 View Post
                      My take....

                      A. Rail is a Active Duty MP from TX trolling.... He's made 3 posts thus far....in various areas of the board....all on this subject....

                      B. None of us were there.... The County PD cleared the guy but then came back and re-opened things due to public outcry.....

                      C. One of the Sheriff's candidates in that County is making a stink as well....Only issue is that the way things are set up, he couldn't investigate it like he thinks he can. Yeah, I'd vote for him....

                      D. Nice to see the Command/DES is backing him. Not sure how that will go over with OMPG or IMCOM.....or a host of other .Mil folks who will eventually stick their noses into this....

                      E. As stated, Congress needs to get off their ****ing asses and pass the legislation in front of them....and this would be a moot point....
                      Exacto.
                      MAC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Misdemeanor Animal Cruelty – Inflicting Unnecessary Suffering and Pain to an animal ($1000/90 Day Maximum Penalty)

                        Discharging of a Firearm within 100 yards of an occupied structure ($1,000/6 month maximum penalty)

                        So....if a AA County Police Officer has a in the line shooting.....they going to charge then with the samething...???

                        BS Charges.....due to political pressure.... What a f'ing crock....

                        I am happy that JAG/DES is backing him.... Most other Installations that would never happen.....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          here is the police report on the incident http://www.aacounty.org/Police/Press...20100806-4.pdf
                          Never ask a man if he served in the Marine Corps! If he earned the title "Marine" he will tell you, if he didn't, there is no need to embarrass him.

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