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Military reaching out to civilian police to patrol on bases (From Stars and Stripes)

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  • Military reaching out to civilian police to patrol on bases (From Stars and Stripes)

    Military reaching out to civilian police to patrol on bases

    Military reaching out to civilian police to patrol on bases
    By Seth Robson, Stars and Stripes
    European edition, Tuesday, October 13, 2009



    Seth Robson / S&S
    Department of the Army civilian police officer Lt. Shane Kantz, 37, of Richmond, Va., talks to a motorist during a routine traffic stop in Vilseck, Germany, on Friday.


    VILSECK, Germany — Civilian police officers might soon be walking the beat at many U.S. overseas Army bases as combat missions continue to stretch the military police thin, according to one of the top military policemen in Europe.

    So far, U.S. Army Garrison Grafenwöhr, which includes Vilseck’s Rose Barracks, is the only overseas garrison patrolled by civilian police. Grafenwöhr provost marshal Lt. Col. Shawn Driscoll predicted the program, known as the Department of the Army Civilian Police, could expand to other Army bases in Europe.

    The civilian police officers, who wear tan uniforms, have manned desks at garrison MP stations all over Europe since 2006. In May, USAG Grafenwöhr started hiring civilian patrol officers, called watch commanders, to head out on the road with MPs.

    In the U.S., more than 3,000 civilian police already patrol Army installations, Driscoll said.

    “I expect this to be the standard for other enduring installations in Europe.”

    An Installation Management Command-Europe official reached Friday said he was unaware of any plans to expand the program.

    But “as positive results from Grafenwöhr’s community patrols reach other commanders, it is likely other garrison commanders will look at this program as a capability to help meet future ... needs,” said Tom Saunders, IMCOM spokesman.

    Constant deployments have left a “capability gap” back home, said Driscoll, who has 11 civilian police officers working out of his station with three more officers on the way.

    As of July, there were 54,476 Army MPs with 3,805 stationed overseas, 6,209 deployed to Iraq and 1,829 deployed to Afghanistan, according to Driscoll, citing the Office of the Provost Marshal General.

    At Grafenwöhr, the 709th MP Battalion has deployed to Iraq twice and is currently deployed to Afghanistan. The 615th MP Company has deployed twice to Iraq and is preparing for another deployment.

    People should not expect to wake up one day and find that all the MPs have been replaced by civilians, Driscoll said.

    “MPs will never leave the law enforcement field lock, stock and barrel. Law enforcement will always be the primary mission of the MPs. Even when they are deployed, they conduct law enforcement missions,” he said.

    Even so, civilian police — who are paid between $41,000 and $53,000 a year plus housing and cost-of-living benefits — will be involved in law enforcement at garrisons for the foreseeable future, Driscoll said.

    At Grafenwöhr, four civilian police and six MPs typically patrol the streets on Friday and Saturday nights.

    One of the civilians, Lt. Shane Kantz, 37, of Richmond, Va., came to Germany in May after working as a police officer in Virginia for nine years.

    Kantz said the MPs were a little apprehensive when he started working with the civilian police.

    “Some felt we were here to take their jobs away,” he said.

    Driscoll said he doesn’t think MPs felt their jobs were threatened but added that there was some apprehension.

    “People were apprehensive because they didn’t know who or what these guys were. They have discovered that they are experienced policemen who they can learn from,” he said.

    Sgt. Nathan Byrd, 26, of Catawba, N.C., a member of the 527th MP Company who helped Kantz check vehicles at Vilseck last Friday, said he’s impressed by what he’d seen from his civilian counterparts.

    “We deploy a lot. I’ve been on three deployments in five years. Our law enforcement skills can get a little rusty, but these guys do the job all the time,” he said.
    I don't answer recruitment messages....

  • #2
    527th MP Company
    That was my first unit...!!! Ever vigilant...! Strike Deep...!


    So, they're in Germany now. I knew it was only a matter of time. That might not actually be a bad gig. I would absolutely love to go back to Germany now.

    They're gonna have the same growing pains that the stateside installations had. "Apprehension?" Yep, thats exactly it. "Taking their jobs away?" Pretty much.

    I think this is good. It brings stability to the region by their law enforcement officers. Of course all the MP's here are gonna cuss and swear at this...

    Comment


    • #3
      Is there not a 3-4 year time limit on civillians in Germany?
      It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

      Comment


      • #4
        I remember seeing them as temp or term positions...

        Comment


        • #5
          > Why bitch, it's a done deal! I am not too excited either about civilianizing the MP function, but nothing is going to be done about it.

          > Talking to many commanders and senior enlisted they are not happy either, but that is the way of the future so bitchen is useless..

          Comment


          • #6
            Talking to many commanders and senior enlisted they are not happy either,
            Thats because senior NCO's cant bully up on these GS-6's and 7's like they could with privates and specialists. They can try till their blue in the face.

            I never understood why this transition from green to blue caused so much drama. Was it like that when they got rid of Army medics driving 998's and changed to GS-7 EMS crews? Was it like that when the fireman MOS was all but phased out in lieu of GS-7 firemen? How about when Army engineers stopped building roads and it went contract?

            I fail to see a reason why this is such a bad thing.

            Comment


            • #7
              Its casue that PVt and SPC MP got out, and now there telling them same NCO to about face, and get to steppin.....and they hate it...lol

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Phil Dodson View Post
                > Why bitch, it's a done deal! I am not too excited either about civilianizing the MP function, but nothing is going to be done about it.

                > Talking to many commanders and senior enlisted they are not happy either, but that is the way of the future so bitchen is useless..
                Not bitching one bit, trying to understand how certain aspects of this are going to work, such as SOFA, and the town patrols, my understanding that civilians had a time limit of how long they could be there, stuff like that no bitching here, nor from any other post so far.
                It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

                Comment


                • #9
                  > Wrong!! Most respond replying the military should police their own, not the reasons you have given. Never implied it wasn't for the better
                  > It is the same reason I give, did my 20 as an MP and am on my 15th as a civilian.
                  > Funny in all that time I can't recalll being bullied by an officer or an enlisted individual on what or how to do my job. Get hassled a lot more as a civilian than I did as an MP on how to do my job however.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I never understood why this transition from green to blue caused so much drama. Was it like that when they got rid of Army medics driving 998's and changed to GS-7 EMS crews? Was it like that when the fireman MOS was all but phased out in lieu of GS-7 firemen? How about when Army engineers stopped building roads and it went contract?
                    90% of the mil jobs taken over by Civilians ( service side) go completely to hell, Go into an office on base and try to get something done. If there are a pack of 2 stripers in an office, it is usually GTG, if there are a bunch of Lunch lady looking GS 5's you will get nothing done while they eat tastycakes and surf beanie baby websites.

                    Thinking about it, that office is pretty much the same as any office with more than two E-6's in it so I guess the point is moot.

                    M-11
                    “All men dream...... But not equally..
                    Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
                    but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
                    for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

                    TE Lawrence

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Huntman
                      Law enforcement will always be the primary mission of the MPs. Even when they are deployed, they conduct law enforcement missions.
                      Almost three years in as an MP and never seen the inside of a patrol car since law enforcement WEEK at Fort Leonardwood. I emphasize week because during my five and a half months of training we spent only a week learning law enforcement. Most of my deployment was spent doing combat patrols both mounted and dismounted. The closest thing to LE we have done was setting up checkpoints on various routes to distrup the enemy flow of weapons. These are reasons why the MP Corps has been tagged "glorified Infantry".
                      Last edited by aw563; 11-12-2009, 12:51 PM. Reason: Spell Check

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Huntman
                        I hear yeah! I was referring to what the Grafenwöhr Provost Marshal Lt. Col. Shawn said about (MPs will never leave the law enforcement field lock, stock and barrel. Law enforcement will always be the primary mission of the MPs. Even when they are deployed, they conduct law enforcement missions). I thought that was wrong because the only bases I know of with an ALL MP force is National Guard bases.
                        And your wrong on that account. There are quite a few national guard bases who use civilian police officers.
                        I don't answer recruitment messages....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Unit453 View Post
                          Thats because senior NCO's cant bully up on these GS-6's and 7's like they could with privates and specialists. They can try till their blue in the face.
                          Or having a GS-13 telling a SGM that he isn't properly utilizing his troops and he doesn't need any more....as he should stop making up BS jobs for his cronies and their buddies and put them to work instead of sitting on their asses in 9-5/M-F jobs.......

                          And there isn't jack he can do to stop said GS-13 from not including it in his report to higher up......

                          Like that has ever happened....in say....the last 24 hours....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Bear, did you ever take over at your post yet? Hows it going?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bearcat357 View Post
                              Or having a GS-13 telling a SGM that he isn't properly utilizing his troops and he doesn't need any more....as he should stop making up BS jobs for his cronies and their buddies and put them to work instead of sitting on their asses in 9-5/M-F jobs.......

                              And there isn't jack he can do to stop said GS-13 from not including it in his report to higher up......

                              Like that has ever happened....in say....the last 24 hours....
                              What kind of jack***** would do such a thing.
                              It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

                              Comment

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