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  • State Citations

    Any branches/bases using state citations? Im looking for info. I know that NTC Great Lakes and NDW use state citations vs 1805's.
    I don't answer recruitment messages....

  • #2
    Originally posted by orlandofed5-0 View Post
    Any branches/bases using state citations? Im looking for info. I know that NTC Great Lakes and NDW use state citations vs 1805's.
    You may need to be deputized by a state or local law enforcement agency to do that.
    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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    • #3
      POM PD does, but strickly for civilians (%95 of our contacts) 1805's for military folk.

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      • #4
        State citations!?! We hardly even write 1805's here. We are only qualified to write 1408's.

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        • #5
          I thought 1805s were pretty much like a state citation for a civilian on a military instalation. What's the difference....

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          • #6
            Originally posted by statebear View Post
            I thought 1805s were pretty much like a state citation for a civilian on a military instalation. What's the difference....

            1805 is a US District court citation. Basically when you enforce the law on base, in most instances, you will issue out an 1805 under 18 USC 13 (or other fed charge).

            Some bases like NDW use DC citations for traffic enforcement. NTC Great Lakes as does Presidio of Monterey as advised by fedcopper. Its at times more convient to use the state cites vs 1805's. Possibly looking at getting a program implemented with the blessing of the command.

            ALso I know quite a few fed agencies such as the VA do use state cites.
            I don't answer recruitment messages....

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            • #7
              I remember issuing 1805s to civilians for traffic violations when I was on active duty. I figured it was just like getting a ticket off-base.


              Out of curiosity what's the convince with state cites vs.1805s?

              Do 1805s go on a civilian's traffic record? (Always wondered about that one)

              Are there fine differences? One more expensive than the other?

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              • #8
                In some cases the US District court after finding someone guilty of a traffic offense/DUI/DWI will let the state DMV know. Not all of them do it. Fines generally mirror what a local charge is unless you issue a CFR (code of federal regulation) violation. Some fines are set by the USDC themselves.

                Using a state cite is generally easier than using an 1805 for a few reasons.

                1. State cites make it easier to suspend a license for failure to show, pay fines etc. There are over 20000 active bench warrants from the various USDC's. They are not a priorty for the US Marshal's service to serve.

                2.Points. Its easier if a state judge to assign points than say a federal judge who may deal with this once a month.
                I don't answer recruitment messages....

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                • #9
                  Very interesting, all we issue are 1805's (utilizing the 1408's as a defacto warning ticket.) I was always curious about the process of the CVB Notices because I rarely, if ever, here back from them after I issue the cite. I was always under the impression that they will always notify the driver's licensing State, and the State always imposes points and penal actions accordingly. I guess your saying that that is a false assumption.

                  How would you get the legal clearances for issuing State Citations being that we are a federal entity who can only enforce the State violation when we assimilitate the offense into the US Code. I would assume that it would have to be State specific, depending largely on whether or not the State statutorily recognizes the citing officer as Police Officer. Absent a State statute, I dont see how we would legally be able to issue State Citations. Please educate me on this?
                  Never ask a man if he served in the Marine Corps! If he earned the title "Marine" he will tell you, if he didn't, there is no need to embarrass him.

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                  • #10
                    Re-Birth, we also issue 1805's (1408's to a lesser extent). As far as issuing state citations, you would need to be in the concurrent jurisdiction.

                    Federal enitites can issue state summons, I know we did it at the Navy Yard (and Walter Reed prior to Dec. 2001) , utilizing the Norton Act/ Federal police cooperation act. From talking to the NTC Great Lakes officers, they used a state law in IL which allows them to issue these cites. The North Chicago VAMC also does this. Im sure Fedcopper can pass on the info for POM.

                    Where Iam currently, the state recognizes us as law enforcement officers. Using this authority we could issue state citations.
                    I don't answer recruitment messages....

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                    • #11
                      Im at Meade, we have a few highways that are concurrent but we are not expressly recognized as Police Officers in Md. for the purposes of Traffic Enforcement or non-felonious crimes. An Officer that came down from APG began issuing State issued vehicle repair notices that he had left over from APG. Our SJA opined that he had to discontinue them because its not a crime and therefore could not be assimiliated into US Code under the Assimilitive Crimes Act. I've always wondered how legal counsels from two Army installations that are only 45 miles apart have polar opposite views on such a simplisitic topic.
                      Never ask a man if he served in the Marine Corps! If he earned the title "Marine" he will tell you, if he didn't, there is no need to embarrass him.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Re-Birth View Post
                        Im at Meade, we have a few highways that are concurrent but we are not expressly recognized as Police Officers in Md. for the purposes of Traffic Enforcement or non-felonious crimes. An Officer that came down from APG began issuing State issued vehicle repair notices that he had left over from APG. Our SJA opined that he had to discontinue them because its not a crime and therefore could not be assimiliated into US Code under the Assimilitive Crimes Act. I've always wondered how legal counsels from two Army installations that are only 45 miles apart have polar opposite views on such a simplisitic topic.
                        I think it is there comfort level, some are ok with prosecuting certain cases, and others will do whatever it takes not to. I am not sure if it is due to lack of experience, or that the officers are somewhat thrown into a goat rope that is sometimes difficult to understand. I know our attorney will admit he hates mag court all together if that tells you what we have to deal with.
                        I think ExArmyMP is now a JAG attorney would like to get his take on this. And to tell the truth I’d love to be able to use the state citation, I can write several offences on one form instead of one 1805 for each offence, not to mention the state has the forms set up with NCIC, and the MDT’s so filling it out is a breeze.
                        It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DAL View Post
                          You may need to be deputized by a state or local law enforcement agency to do that.
                          I could be wrong but I thought that I read that Army Regulations expressly prohibits any form of deputization, citing possible conflictions with the posse comatatis act since we are, by policy, subject to its restrictions.
                          Never ask a man if he served in the Marine Corps! If he earned the title "Marine" he will tell you, if he didn't, there is no need to embarrass him.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Re-Birth View Post
                            I could be wrong but I thought that I read that Army Regulations expressly prohibits any form of deputization, citing possible conflictions with the posse comatatis act since we are, by policy, subject to its restrictions.
                            In part that is true, for 99.9% of us, DOD has said no way, but there is an exception that lets it happen on a limited basis.
                            It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by orlandofed5-0 View Post
                              Re-Birth, we also issue 1805's (1408's to a lesser extent). As far as issuing state citations, you would need to be in the concurrent jurisdiction.

                              Federal enitites can issue state summons, I know we did it at the Navy Yard (and Walter Reed prior to Dec. 2001) , utilizing the Norton Act/ Federal police cooperation act. From talking to the NTC Great Lakes officers, they used a state law in IL which allows them to issue these cites. The North Chicago VAMC also does this. Im sure Fedcopper can pass on the info for POM.

                              Where Iam currently, the state recognizes us as law enforcement officers. Using this authority we could issue state citations.
                              I can see Federal Police in DC enforcing local law because Washington DC is a Federal Enclave thereby minimizing any statutory restrictions imposed. But unless State statute or common law permits such enforcement, I would be interested to see how they got around that legal obstacle.
                              Never ask a man if he served in the Marine Corps! If he earned the title "Marine" he will tell you, if he didn't, there is no need to embarrass him.

                              Comment

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