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  • Out Of State Entry

    Good Morning Everyone!

    First time poster here, long time lurker.

    Short About Me: Prior USMC, 2009-2014, been in IT since I 14, and have been working federally ever since discharge. I have always had an aspiration to be in law enforcement, unfortunately my path has not really been geared that way as the Federal government jobs seem to reel me in. In 2016 I applied to numerous agencies not really knowing who nor caring where I was working, such as Fremont, CA, LAPD, NLVMPD, Bellvue, WA, Pierce County SO, WA; until I did a ride along with a KCSO officer. Needless to say, I made up my mind where I wanted to be, and that was KCSO. The deputy was very happy with where he was and the amount of overtime he is afforded, his happiness with benefits, we took a tour of the station also and everyone was very "brotherhood" which is something I have been missing from my USMC days.

    I tested, did the PST/PAT with NTN, had excellent scores on all. Did an Oral Board but was told I wouldn't be a good fit a couple of weeks later, and they could not tell me why. (At this point i had successfully passed the OBs of two other departments). Never the less, I took a job in Belgium for the government. I am now back and for the past year, I have realized. I hate my career choice. I don't want to spend the remainder of my life working 40hrs a week doing something I dislike, even if I do make >$100k. I am only 28. I am single. No ties.

    Had a couple of questions for the group:

    Looking around the forum, (even using search) I cannot seem to find any "new" information regarding the Academy. I have seen a couple from 2016, but most are 2014 and prior.

    1. I want to move back to Washington state and re-test for KCSO and maybe one more department as a fail-safe. (Such as Skagit SO). Being from out of state, and KCSO cadets do not reside on campus due to the 40 mile limit, can I still live on campus if I pay for myself? (Rather than moving to WA, getting into a rental contract, then being moved to a region far away from said residence)

    2. Every other academy has killer PT (not worried, I am in great shape) but I hear the WA Academy has nothing of the sort? Except some tough DT?

    Can anyone share experience relating to a condensed process for out of state applications with departments such as KCSO/SkagitSO?
    Any Advice for passing the KCSO OB this time? (I did ask why I didnt pass the first time, they said they could not tell)

  • #2
    Well I applied for KCSO back in 2014 and got hired, but I did not take the job due to being given another opportunity. That said, if I was move back to Washington, I would so work there if hired again. You can PM if you have any more questions.

    Comment


    • #3
      I am not law enforcement in the state of Washington, however I am in the hiring process with some agencies. The only thing I can comment on is that the academy does not do PT anymore besides the first PT exam you will take to enter the academy. I still hear you will occasionally have to knock out some push ups for forgetting certain RCW's or making mistakes on certain things. From recent officers I have talked to who graduated its not the military mindset and hardcore PT anymore. They said once they passed their PAT to enter the academy they never had to run again (for exams.) Some departments will offer a higher pay for passing PAT once a year though such as Renton Police Department. Seattle does not require a fitness standard once you pass initial testing/hiring.

      Post below are some videos of life at the academy:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVObWWaCSpY&t=112s
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTfsqoo-jKg

      As for the residence issue, I am sure you can find a month to month agreement somewhere close to Burien by the academy (I am sure it'll cost a bit.) I am sure its a common issue with people attending the police academy, you may also find out which section of King County you will be working once you get hired by KCSO but that would take someone who actually works there to answer that more specifically if you get assigned a section before or after academy then you could just find an apartment close to that area.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by FedGoLEO View Post
        Good Morning Everyone!

        First time poster here, long time lurker.

        Short About Me: Prior USMC, 2009-2014, been in IT since I 14, and have been working federally ever since discharge. I have always had an aspiration to be in law enforcement, unfortunately my path has not really been geared that way as the Federal government jobs seem to reel me in. In 2016 I applied to numerous agencies not really knowing who nor caring where I was working, such as Fremont, CA, LAPD, NLVMPD, Bellvue, WA, Pierce County SO, WA; until I did a ride along with a KCSO officer. Needless to say, I made up my mind where I wanted to be, and that was KCSO. The deputy was very happy with where he was and the amount of overtime he is afforded, his happiness with benefits, we took a tour of the station also and everyone was very "brotherhood" which is something I have been missing from my USMC days.

        I tested, did the PST/PAT with NTN, had excellent scores on all. Did an Oral Board but was told I wouldn't be a good fit a couple of weeks later, and they could not tell me why. (At this point i had successfully passed the OBs of two other departments). Never the less, I took a job in Belgium for the government. I am now back and for the past year, I have realized. I hate my career choice. I don't want to spend the remainder of my life working 40hrs a week doing something I dislike, even if I do make >$100k. I am only 28. I am single. No ties.

        Had a couple of questions for the group:

        Looking around the forum, (even using search) I cannot seem to find any "new" information regarding the Academy. I have seen a couple from 2016, but most are 2014 and prior.

        1. I want to move back to Washington state and re-test for KCSO and maybe one more department as a fail-safe. (Such as Skagit SO). Being from out of state, and KCSO cadets do not reside on campus due to the 40 mile limit, can I still live on campus if I pay for myself? (Rather than moving to WA, getting into a rental contract, then being moved to a region far away from said residence)

        2. Every other academy has killer PT (not worried, I am in great shape) but I hear the WA Academy has nothing of the sort? Except some tough DT?

        Can anyone share experience relating to a condensed process for out of state applications with departments such as KCSO/SkagitSO?
        Any Advice for passing the KCSO OB this time? (I did ask why I didnt pass the first time, they said they could not tell)
        Never do something you don't enjoy. No amount of money is worth it. If you want to be in law enforcement, I highly recommend you focus on it and don't give up. And as far as the money goes, you'll make around 100 at KCSO (and many other agencies) anyway with minimal OT (when you consider salary, benefits and a take home car from many places, your total compensation will be way over that without OT at top out regardless).

        For your Academy question - No, you can't pay your way for residency, unfortunately. I had that problem, too. I worked for an agency too close to board there and had to commute. Mornings took an hour to get there from my house and, on the worst days, upwards of 150-minutes to get home. It was a drag. You'll develop a fine appreciation for podcasts and audio books.

        Regarding PT - when I was there, the philosophy had basically become this: If you come in as a lazy SOB, you'll go back to being a lazy SOB after you graduate, so they're done wasting time on getting people in shape for only a few months. That time has transitioned into other blocks (DT, patrol tactics, firearms,etc.). You'll have plenty of opportunity to come in early or stay late to workout, so it's on you.

        Finally, when it comes to oral boards, you'll get lots of different perspectives depending on who you talk to. I took my fair share over the years and I can say that some of the boards I felt the best about were scored the lowest. All you can do is study the agency, talk to the guys and gals who work there, and get well-versed in why that agency is where you want to work. Having sat on both sides of the table over the years, I'd strongly advocate making sure you answer what you actually think and not what you think they want to hear. That tends to get people jammed up. Also, don't feel like you have to be "right" all the time. I don't know about KC's board in particular, but a lot of agencies will ask entry-level candidates questions about what they'd do in police scenarios. They know you aren't a cop, so they don't expect you to know most policy and procedures. What they're looking for is whether or not you're reasonable. Your answer can be "wrong" but if you can articulate why you would do what you say, and if it makes logical sense, you'll score well.

        Good luck!

        Comment


        • FedGoLEO
          FedGoLEO commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks for your answer, All of that was precisely what I was looking for.

          I have heard that too! One deputy I went on a ride along with stated he cleared $150k in a recent year with OT and off-duty events. But in my opinion, as long as at the end of the day I can afford clothes, groceries and a modest mortgage, doing something I love would be totally worth the pay cut.

          Again, I feel like I am slowly dying in front of my computer at work.

          I have branched out a bit and I am looking at other agencies in that area also, seems like there are a few others that "from the cover" (websites, videos etc...) look like great places to work.

          As for PT, I can see how that philosophy is logical, seems like every time you see police on YouTube or a show, you have your population of fat bodies and I just think "HOW".

          Yeah the residency thing was me being hopeful haha, I would be coming from North Carolina so my commute would be depending on what place I could find relative to the Academy.

          As for my first round of boards a couple of years ago, I think that is where my military experience hurt me. In a promotions board, review board or anything of the sort, you stay honest, but you do tend to glorify your answers depending on your audience. I think this time I will go in and remain honest but also truly say what I believe and can defend.

          Thanks for the advice, it definitely helped!

      • #5
        If I was you I would apply to KCSO and SPD. Both of them are hiring hundreds of recruits. You can always transfer to a different department. I would advise you strongly from applying to one department as some departments take months for the process, so in case you fail one, at least you have another department you can go to and even if you pass, you can have your pick of the litter in which department you want to choose. from what you said, you seem to want a big department, with lots of opportunities and a lot of people so you can meet many people. I would suggest KCSO and SPD.

        I am a recruit within SPD in the academy at the moment. best of luck and pm me if u have any other questions

        Comment


        • FedGoLEO
          FedGoLEO commented
          Editing a comment
          Seeing as I live in NC, and would have to fly out for the OBs I will be applying to 3-4 and going to try my best to work with them on trying to align most of the OBs.

          Both from this forum and in general, I have heard nothing but bad intel on SPD. The way the officers are allowed to work, how everything even slightly questionable results in an evaluation. And just seeing how many officers lateral out of there within the first couple years. Just does not seem like a supportive environment. I could be wrong, just basing my opinion on what I have read on these boards. Since you're a recruit maybe you could shed a better light?

          I like the idea of both small and big departments. Small so you can get to know the locals on a more first name basis, but large due to the opportunities. I have a student FAA license which I have all of my hours done, minus the final check ride. It would be cool to maybe be an aviator for a department also, and I know only the larger depts. have those.

        • SeattlePDAspire
          SeattlePDAspire commented
          Editing a comment
          Sorry for the late reply, been busy at the academy.

          Unfortunately, SPD for some reason is the target of many negative comments which none are based on reality. I can tell you this confidently, because I am a recruit from SPD in the academy. Before I went to the academy, SPD trained me for 6 weeks on how to succeed in the academy, while at the same time paying me. The salary I get as a recruit, not even as a sworn officer is probably more than half the guys who talk **** about SPD make. When I finish the academy in a few short months, I move to 85k starting plus excellent benefits with a 7% pay raise in 6 months. we top out at 111k BASE salary after 4 years and with overtime some officers are making 150k/yr without breaking a sweat...

          The people I have met here have been phenomenal. The DT staff is second to none, I have been excelling at the academy because of how tough and rigid our DT is. The common stereotype of SPD being a soft department are false, the training staff doesn't take any **** from anybody and expect you to have your **** together and if you don't they will make you achieve excellence or break you. Simple as that.

          Just last weekend in our optional DT session that is on saturdays, we have a US SPEC OPS guy come in and teach us some ground moves.

          Every single person I have met in SPD has been amazing. I have been treated with nothing but respect and kindness.

          the opportunities in this department are endless. SPD has a lot of open spots, now is the best time to apply and get in. im warning you not to let a few people convince you that a department of 1300 sworn officers is bad.

          email the recruiter detective sinn and ask him about the department, dont let others make the decision for you. that will be your biggest mistake.

          any questions feel free to ask. this is an amazing department dont let this opportunity go bye because you heard some ****ing rumors.

      • #6
        1) You have to get hired on with a police agency before you can go to WA State B.L.E.A. The distance between your agency to B.L.E.A will determine whether or not you can get a dorm.

        2) Since B.L.E.A changed their vision to a Guardian mindset. I heard the culture is very laid back now and P.T is lacking. You'll have a lot of opportunity to practice DT outside of class time.

        3) Look into Seattle Police or KCSO. I believe they have an expedited process for out of state applicants. I also noticed you talked about Skagit S.O. Look into Snohomish County Sheriff. All the Deputies I've talked to say nothing but great things about their agency. They are also given a lot of freedom and not micromanaged.

        Comment


        • FedGoLEO
          FedGoLEO commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks! I have been looking at Snohomish too, so far my top 4 are KCSO, Auburn PD, SkagitSO, and SnohomishSO.

          Okay yeah I have been hearing about that Guardian mindset, very interested to see how that operates.

      • #7
        Do lateral applicants with Seattle/KSCO have to do a physical agility test?

        Edit: Just saw on the Seattle jobs website that they do not do the PAT if you're a lateral.
        Last edited by Decided; 12-14-2019, 09:59 PM.
        Play stupid games and win stupid prizes. An all expenses paid trip with travel, meals, and accommodations included!

        Comment


        • #8
          Originally posted by Decided View Post
          Do lateral applicants with Seattle/KSCO have to do a physical agility test?
          seattlepolicejobs.com

          email the recruiter andre sinn and ask him they are giving laterals a 15k bonus and you are starting at 91k/yr. i am a recruit and love it here, they take care of me very well.

          dont let this opportunity pass you bye.

          Comment


          • #9
            Originally posted by SeattlePDAspire View Post

            seattlepolicejobs.com

            email the recruiter andre sinn and ask him they are giving laterals a 15k bonus and you are starting at 91k/yr. i am a recruit and love it here, they take care of me very well.

            dont let this opportunity pass you bye.
            Thanks, I appreciate the suggestion. I emailed the other recruiter prior to seeing your post.

            Is there anyone here out of the academy that could answer a few questions via PM?
            Play stupid games and win stupid prizes. An all expenses paid trip with travel, meals, and accommodations included!

            Comment

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