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Dallas Constables Are Being Crucified For Their Failure To Act.

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  • Dallas Constables Are Being Crucified For Their Failure To Act.

    The mother of the two boys ran into McDonalds to try and get help from Pct 1 Constables but all she got was a whole lot of nothing and two dead boys. Thats what a No Chase policy will get you! The constables should have jumped all over that until DPD took it over. All they did was get on their radio and provided limited information about what was going on. What a tragic event for all involved!
    Strong Body, Sharp Mind And Good Tactics!

  • #2
    Tragic incident indeed, but hindsight is 20/20. From what limited information the media has given, couple things to think about...

    Mother flags down deputy contables stating that she and her children were kidnapped the children's father. The actual offense of kidnapping has very specific elements. Was the mother actually kidnapped or was she unlawfully restrained? Did the father make it clear that his intent was to harm the children? Take them somewhere that they would not likely to be found? Could the deputies even see the vehicle?

    Trying to get accurate and correct information from a hysterical person that has an emotional connection to the persons involved is not easy.

    Marked constable cars did not have emergency equipment. I think any marked law enforcement vehicle should have emergency equipment, but they didn't.

    No chase policy.

    Now say the deputies could see the vehicle and were able to successfully follow the vehicle. The susp sees the marked cars and decides to run, crashes, and kills the two children. Now what?

    Or even say the deputies followed the vehicle, were able to get it stopped, and resolve the situation peacefully without anybody getting hurt. I would be willing to bet that the elements of kidnapping would still not have been met and now you have two deputies that violated a no chase policy and will get severe discipline.

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    • #3
      Just saw a news cast where the reporter was basically throwing the constables under the bus. It ****es me off when it's the same reporter that would crucify the same constable had they chased and some one innocent gets killed during the pursuit. Nothing but hypocrites.

      It's a tough spot to have a no chase policy no doubt, but the issue is the media that crucifies you for chasing and and innocent person dies and then the same media crucifies you for not chasing....The reporter just rubbed me the wrong way in how she was interviewing the constable in a condescending tone.

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      • #4
        That's what people want. Can't have those horrible policemen chasing someone.
        For the cops out there: You are an adult. If you want to write someone, write them. If you don't want to write someone, then don't write them.

        "Jeff, you are the best cop on this board"-Anonymous Post

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        • #5
          Well sh** happens. Heads will fall for this. Heck if this was DPD, the officers involved would have already been fired, indicted and jailed for some made up reason. It sucks, and it's going to be scrutinized until the cows come home.

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          • #6
            I'm in my 7th week at the academy, and we always go over ethical dilemas. Today's ethical dilema was this example. Do we break department policy in this type of circumstance? I can't honestly say what I'd do if I were in his position. I just hope that the good that comes out of this would be to adjust their pursuit policy.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by beavo451 View Post
              Marked constable cars did not have emergency equipment. I think any marked law enforcement vehicle should have emergency equipment, but they didn't.
              Wait, seriously?!?!?! That may be just as retarded as NY's shoot to wound bill that keeps trying to get passed.

              Originally posted by Crims0n7 View Post
              Just saw a news cast where the reporter was basically throwing the constables under the bus.
              Let me guess, Ch 8?
              Last edited by Rudy8116; 08-24-2011, 08:01 PM.
              I yell "PIKACHU" before I tase someone.

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              • #8
                You know I am actually suprised I haven't seen more news on this issue. Watched the news this AM and they were more concerned about the earthquakes on the East coast and that lady that went missing in Aruba.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by beavo451 View Post
                  Tragic incident indeed, but hindsight is 20/20. From what limited information the media has given, couple things to think about...

                  Mother flags down deputy contables stating that she and her children were kidnapped the children's father. The actual offense of kidnapping has very specific elements. Was the mother actually kidnapped or was she unlawfully restrained? Did the father make it clear that his intent was to harm the children? Take them somewhere that they would not likely to be found? Could the deputies even see the vehicle?

                  Trying to get accurate and correct information from a hysterical person that has an emotional connection to the persons involved is not easy.

                  Marked constable cars did not have emergency equipment. I think any marked law enforcement vehicle should have emergency equipment, but they didn't.

                  No chase policy.

                  Now say the deputies could see the vehicle and were able to successfully follow the vehicle. The susp sees the marked cars and decides to run, crashes, and kills the two children. Now what?

                  Or even say the deputies followed the vehicle, were able to get it stopped, and resolve the situation peacefully without anybody getting hurt. I would be willing to bet that the elements of kidnapping would still not have been met and now you have two deputies that violated a no chase policy and will get severe discipline.
                  Very good point! First thing I would have thought of is that it's civil in nature since they're both parents. Seriously, how many phone calls about this situation do we get and shrug it off saying it's a civil issue? It's just that 0.001% where some parent is a whack job and kills his kids, like in this situation. Now, if somebody came up to me and said some stranger just kidnapped her children, then ya, marked or unmarked, it's balls to the wall to catch the perp.

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                  • #10
                    This is a small part of a really big story. If you are not familiar with what is going on with Dallas County and its elected Constables Offices, pull up a chair and have a listen. It's politics at its worst.

                    There has been a lot of negative press concerning the Dallas County Constables Offices, 2 precincts in particular. Poor voting on the part of citizens and poor hiring standards has been the major issue at hand. What power does a county's Commissioners Court have to solve this issue? The only thing they can do: cut funding.

                    The Dallas County Constables Offices have been under attack by the Dallas County Commissioners for years. They are slowly trying to dismantle these offices in an effort to abolish them. Dozens of deputies have been laid off. Funding for safety equipment has been denied (e.g. light bars, sirens, ballistic armor, etc.).

                    Citizens have been worked up over misleading information that Constables are an antiquated office and are no longer needed. That millions can be saved if the Constable duties were handed over to the Sheriff. Whatever. The point is, citizens in Dallas County have been screaming that they do no want Constables enforcing criminal laws, only civil laws. Then something like what happened yesterday happens.

                    My point is this: Constables have to start evolving with the times and make themselves relevant. Unless you're a Constable in Harris County you need to get with the program and revamp your office. Let the police, the sheriff's office, and the troopers handle the criminal side of the law.

                    We almost lost every deputy constable in my county over this very thing. With the economy the way it is and with the new mindset of "we need smaller government" politicians are looking at way to scale back on things. Giving civil process to the Sheriff's Office is a new idea and it is a bad one. However, elected officials need to learn to work together.

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                    • #11
                      Say these constables go, "hey there's the car, we need to pursue him.." and then take off in chase because their morals wouldn't let them just stand by. During the chase the constable smashes into a car at an intersection killing the driver.

                      Now the case is in court...what's the first question they ask? "Did the officer involved follow department policy?" Oops, no they didn't...they couldn't in their right mind let this car speed away. Now they are charged criminally and sued civilly.

                      Heard a guy on the radio say that if he were driving along and a pursuit comes his way and he gets hit by one of the vehicles involved....that he would be ok with it. Yeah right, he'd be ok as he sued the county for millions.

                      Tough situation.

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                      • #12
                        The departments around the country are full of horrible policy. As a correctional officer for a sheriffs department I am not technically "merited", have no arrest powers, no off duty carry etc.
                        Well alot of our details are inmate transports, hospital details etc.
                        So we always wonder and dread the day that we are at a hospital and some mopes come to bust out their buddy from the hospital...........or the mopes parents come and dont listen to us and shove their way into the room. We have no arrest powers, we really cant do anything. Let alone if we were to have to take someones life. the liability issues are drastic. I mean what if heaven forbid someone starts shooting up the hospital. Would we be expected to act on it? Let alone would the sheriff have our backs? We arent even technically sworn peace officers........

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                        • #13
                          I'm tired of all these agencies with these administrators that want their officers seen but not heard. They dress them up, send them to school, equip with a badge and gun and put them in a squad car then tell to go out there to be seen but not heard! WTF! That situation is why having a No Chase policy doesn't work. There is always an exception to every rule! The chiefs are so worried about liability, which the SP has backed on this, that they forgot whats its like to be on the road! I have seen private citizens and security guards do more than what those contables did. I bet if it were the constable's kid in that car they would have gotten more involved. Don't Play Police, Be The Police!!!
                          Strong Body, Sharp Mind And Good Tactics!

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                          • #14
                            The only thing I can say to the above is this..

                            I'm a human being before im an officer and every instinct I have as a human being would have been to at least follow the vehicle until it was stopped or I could have taken action that didn't require lights and siren.

                            I'm not debating the fact that some admin's, councils, etc, etc won't let the police be the police.

                            I'm stating that as a human being, I would have followed the car.

                            As an officer, if I would have done the exact thing the constables did, my career would have been ended by my guilt!!
                            "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck"

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                            • #15
                              Everytime the constables, or any department for that matter get involved in a chase that goes a little sour, it seems as if they get torn apart by the media. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

                              Comment

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