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  • #31
    Originally posted by Deputy_do_right View Post
    Interesting, you needed an officer of the law to set your moral compass, otherwise you couldn't see the significance of breaking traffic laws?
    Please don't mention this in your interview if and when the time comes.
    Right, because people don't automatically slow down when they see a cop running radar on the side of the road. It's human nature to want to avoid getting a ticket and paying a fine. I've never heard of anyone slowing down because they might get a verbal warning.

    Originally posted by creedstaind View Post
    But has there even been any proof to suggest that citations actually change peoples driving habits? I've had maybe 5 or 6 speeding tickets in my life, all while I was younger, and clearly it didn't stop me from speeding. I still speed today. Does that make me a hypocrite? No, because I don't write speeding tickets. Speeding's one of those laws that I don't really agree with. I can be going 5-10 over the speed limit but I'm paying 100% attention to the cars around me, traffic signs, etc. and I assure you I'm completely safe. Now if I'm driving through an area where there are alot of kids playing in yards, etc. I will slow it down to make sure I can stop in time should that kid run out in the road. I speed pretty regularly yet I've never been in a wreck that was my fault. Yet someone can be going 5 under the speed limit and they're texting, they have no awareness of the traffic around them, they're messing with the radio, they're not paying attention to the fact that their lane is about to end, they're looking for their cigarette lighter, they're messing with the kids in the back seat, they're constantly looking at their speedometer instead of the road, etc. They're not technically breaking the law, but who's the more dangerous driver in that situation? Yet I can get jammed with a ticket in that scenario and they can't. This is the gray area I'm talking about. I wouldn't write someone a speeding ticket unless I actually saw them doing something unsafe. Some would say speeding in and of itself is unsafe and I disagree thoroughly.

    BUt going back to your post... it's easy to say "well I probably should've gotten more tickets" after the fact. I bet you'd be singing a different tune if you would have had to pay hard earned money instead of getting a warning.
    I think everyone is different, and maybe you don't think citations will change the way people drive. I don't think it will change the way everyone who is cited drives, but do you really think verbal warnings are equally as effective? I personally think verbal warnings do next to nothing, because most people just forget they were ever even stopped 2 days later, while for a good percentage of people a citation would in fact make them at least attempt to change their driving habits. To each his own, though.

    And I have had to pay my hard earned money before, when I did get one speeding ticket in 2008. It totally sucked. If that had happened to me 2-3 more times, I honestly don't think I would have continued to speed, especially considering the escalating insurance premiums I'd be paying by that point.

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    • #32
      Hmmm, that's interesting coming from someone that isnt a LEO yet. I think warnings are effective, but that's just my experience from the streets. Thats not experience from breaking the laws and getting stopped a bunch. I'd be grateful if I were you because if you were cited all those times, your chances of being a LEO would be slim. You might realize that everyone speeds, buy you gotta look St the big picture and see who is the real hazard.

      I will stick to my point of saying they is pretty shaddy to make everyone else's insurance go up when you were lucky enough to catch breaks. Go out there and be a hypocrite. Wait...you still have to get to the academy first.
      TEXAS STATE TROOPER

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Trooper2795 View Post
        Hmmm, that's interesting coming from someone that isnt a LEO yet. I think warnings are effective, but that's just my experience from the streets.
        You're right about that. Like I said before, I'm young and have no experience, so my tendencies may change as I get older/more experienced. And I have nothing against listening to those with more experience and learning from them. I was just explaining my current way of thinking on the issue.

        Thats not experience from breaking the laws and getting stopped a bunch. I'd be grateful if I were you because if you were cited all those times, your chances of being a LEO would be slim.
        Believe me, I am very, very grateful. I think though, that if I were cited 2-3 times in the first place, I never would have been stopped the other times because I would have slowed down. I honestly don't think I'm dumb enough to keep speeding after getting 3-4 tickets, but maybe I am, lol. I will never know... ;-)

        You might realize that everyone speeds, buy you gotta look St the big picture and see who is the real hazard.
        True. I'm not saying I would cite everyone who goes 1 mile over. I personally would not feel bad for giving someone a ticket for 10 over, though. To each his own...

        I will stick to my point of saying they is pretty shaddy to make everyone else's insurance go up when you were lucky enough to catch breaks. Go out there and be a hypocrite. Wait...you still have to get to the academy first.
        Just because I got lucky in the past, means that if I wrote speeding tickets, I would be a hypocrite? I disagree... I broke the law in the past and deserved more tickets for doing so.

        I would be a hypocrite if I sped all the time and still wrote speeding tickets. But who knows, you are right, I have to get to an academy first before any of this matters. It's still interesting to think about, though.

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        • #34
          I'm not a ticket writer at all, never have been, but if no one ever wrote the 'fix it' tickets would anything ever be fixed? Would people pay for registration and inspection if no one ever wrote them?
          Originally posted by ISPY4U2
          Tex, if I'm ever in the Lone Star state, which is unlikely unless I'm being held prisoner against my will by separatist extremists, remind me to buy you a beer. You make more sense every post.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by benseventeen View Post
            Right, because people don't automatically slow down when they see a cop running radar on the side of the road. It's human nature to want to avoid getting a ticket and paying a fine. I've never heard of anyone slowing down because they might get a verbal warning.
            You're talking with many Deputy's, Officers, Troopers with many years of experience. You say you're open to listening, yet you want to beat this point of enforcement over warnings down our throats with the zeal of a veteran with many years under his belt, which you don't have.
            In my career I've probably written over 10,000 tickets, seriously. I've probably given more than half that number warnings. Most sensible people take your warning to heart and try to obey the law, not go on rants that they wouldn't have kept breaking the law if the officer had just written them a ticket.
            That's really some odd thinking to me, strange rationalizing, almost child-like in it's conclusions/defenses.
            So, by your logic all law breakers, including your disorderly conducts, love birds being reckless, kids popping firecrackers in a city or county that doesn't allow it, should all be hooked and booked. Otherwise we cannot count on the good citizens we serve to hopefully obey the law (voluntary compliance) and mass chaos/anarchy will rise?
            If only that cop would have arrested me for stealing that pack of gum when I was ten............I would not have ventured into this adult life of stealing?
            If we ticketed and arrested all violators of the law we saw happen before our eyes in an 8, 10, 12 hour shift our jails would be overcrowded and we wouldn't have enough ticket books issued to us.
            You've got to pick your battles. Often times traffic violations are used as nothing more than probable cause to find the bigger violation, something more than a Class C.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Tex4720 View Post
              I'm not a ticket writer at all, never have been, but if no one ever wrote the 'fix it' tickets would anything ever be fixed? Would people pay for registration and inspection if no one ever wrote them?
              A solid argument. I believe some agencies do written warnings (i'm not entirely sure) and if they do, I'm not sure if they're tracked or not (I would assume that they are if they're written). In that situation if I saw someone had already gotten a warning for a headlight being out and they still didn't have it fixed a week or so later, I'd have no problem writing that ticket. But that's more of a "what if" scenario as my department doesn't do written warnings.

              Still, I'm not entirely sure taking someone's money away from them is the best way to "punish" them or teach them a lesson. Money talks, there's no doubt about that, and it's pretty much something that nearly everyone cares about. However, if someone is cited for unsafe lane change, shouldn't they be forced to take a course on safe driving or something? I mean, if we're being honest with ourselves here and our true goal is about public safety (and not generating revenue) then I would think there's a better way to make the public safe than take money from their pocket. Sure, it may motivate them not to do it again, but I think something that started with good intentions has become a cash cow for departments and is being abused.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Tex4720 View Post
                I'm not a ticket writer at all, never have been, but if no one ever wrote the 'fix it' tickets would anything ever be fixed? Would people pay for registration and inspection if no one ever wrote them?
                I'll write regulatory tickets in the hood for people that need to be on paper. No DL and registration violation are the two big ones I use, since I know they're just going to turn into warrants.
                “The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

                "You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him."

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                • #38
                  I'm with ya on that one!
                  TEXAS STATE TROOPER

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                  • #39
                    So either TX Constable hasn't had time to get online for a while... or I hit the nail on the head about it being more of a power trip than anything else. I'm still surprised none of the other "traffic nazis" have bothered to get in on this discussion.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by TX Constable
                      Now I will tell you that all I write for the most part is non-moving violations.
                      Originally posted by TX Constable
                      Conducting traffic enforcement in general saves lives as it deters speeding, road rage, reckless driving, accidents in general etc...
                      Ummmm, so which is it?? If you don't like writing DUI's or moving violations how on earth are you trying to justify to yourself that you are saving lives writing petty non-moving violations??

                      I'm sorry, I'm not from TX but I had to comment on this. From what I have seen on my Dept I strongly believe the majority of the people that run around writing as many tickets as they can only do so because they aren't that good at police work. Then they can say, "I'm just real good at traffic, look at all my citations." ANYONE can be good at traffic, just know the stinking traffic laws and you can stop people all day long. It doesn't mean you are accomplishing anything meaningful. And from what I am gathering here you don't seem to even be citing on the stops that matter the most.

                      Sorry for the rant

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                      • #41
                        I work in the ghetto too, I hardly write tickets as traffic stops are a means to an end for me. I have to ask, having grown up in the ghetto of SW Houston, which Constable agency is banging it out in the ghetto? I'm not picturing PCT 1 doing it. PCT 2 has maybe one Deputy Constable on patrol at any given time. PCT 3, well they do patrol in Channelview and Crosby and the like but HCSO is the daddy out there sooo, it is ghetto like but calls for service, unless you are a contract Deputy, are few and far between. PCT 4, busy but mainly contract and hardly 'ghetto' cruisers. PCT 5 is a big agency but they aren't 'banging it out' like they did while I was growing up in the 80s. PCT 6, hmm, Denver Harbor and the like but most are reserves. PCT 7, maybe but all Ive seen them do is run traffic here and there, and PCT 8 are the traffic nazis of HCCOs but answering calls for service are a rarity. I could be wrong, I've been known for doing it a time or two..........just bumpin' my gums.

                        I'll tell you what I do in my down time, I patrol my district, I roll with the windows down, I listen for sounds of breaking glass, screaming women or men which are signs of disturbances (yes I've happened upon them like that), listen for gun shots, detect narcotic activity, and I check my businesses as I don't like burglaries happening on my watch in my beat, and if I have the time from backing up fellow Deputies, then I look for vehicles to stop and find something of interest in. I'm just not a big ticket writer, sure I made over 80 stops in one month ( I work 15 days a month) and I wrote 4 citations... I got better things to do with my time than lay paper on everyone for every little thing.

                        IMHO traffic enforcement doesn't deter anything, the mere sight of a marked patrol vehicle deters erratic behavior or violations moreso than one vehicle being stopped. You know why? You stopped that vehicle for defective equipment and while you're sitting on the side of the highway "banging" out that ticket, every driver sees you're tied up and hits the gas as they go flying by. You haven't deterred anyone, you've simply gone fishing and caught one of the fish in the pond, the rest will continue to take their chances and nibble at the hook. If that is what your supervisors want and you seek their approval so be it, have at it, but I'm inclined to go along with the Trooper on this one and before you go bashing the poor Ol' Trooper out in East Texas, he's the one stopping vehicles out in the middle of nowhere with only a mile marker as his location, more than likely without a handheld, and with backup nowhere close, and yet he does it day in and day out and he doesn't have the luxury of 20 agencies coming to his assistance if the crap hits the fan and he drops an assist. My back up can be ten minutes away and that's not fun, I ain't making fun of a man who does it without any at all.

                        Law Enforcement is about so much more than citations and traffic, that's a small part of our job, really.

                        Peace out yo, be safe and keep it fer realz
                        Moooooooooooo, I'm a goat

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by JSD73 View Post
                          I work in the ghetto too, I hardly write tickets as traffic stops are a means to an end for me. I have to ask, having grown up in the ghetto of SW Houston, which Constable agency is banging it out in the ghetto? I'm not picturing PCT 1 doing it. PCT 2 has maybe one Deputy Constable on patrol at any given time. PCT 3, well they do patrol in Channelview and Crosby and the like but HCSO is the daddy out there sooo, it is ghetto like but calls for service, unless you are a contract Deputy, are few and far between. PCT 4, busy but mainly contract and hardly 'ghetto' cruisers. PCT 5 is a big agency but they aren't 'banging it out' like they did while I was growing up in the 80s. PCT 6, hmm, Denver Harbor and the like but most are reserves. PCT 7, maybe but all Ive seen them do is run traffic here and there, and PCT 8 are the traffic nazis of HCCOs but answering calls for service are a rarity. I could be wrong, I've been known for doing it a time or two..........just bumpin' my gums.

                          I'll tell you what I do in my down time, I patrol my district, I roll with the windows down, I listen for sounds of breaking glass, screaming women or men which are signs of disturbances (yes I've happened upon them like that), listen for gun shots, detect narcotic activity, and I check my businesses as I don't like burglaries happening on my watch in my beat, and if I have the time from backing up fellow Deputies, then I look for vehicles to stop and find something of interest in. I'm just not a big ticket writer, sure I made over 80 stops in one month ( I work 15 days a month) and I wrote 4 citations... I got better things to do with my time than lay paper on everyone for every little thing.

                          IMHO traffic enforcement doesn't deter anything, the mere sight of a marked patrol vehicle deters erratic behavior or violations moreso than one vehicle being stopped. You know why? You stopped that vehicle for defective equipment and while you're sitting on the side of the highway "banging" out that ticket, every driver sees you're tied up and hits the gas as they go flying by. You haven't deterred anyone, you've simply gone fishing and caught one of the fish in the pond, the rest will continue to take their chances and nibble at the hook. If that is what your supervisors want and you seek their approval so be it, have at it, but I'm inclined to go along with the Trooper on this one and before you go bashing the poor Ol' Trooper out in East Texas, he's the one stopping vehicles out in the middle of nowhere with only a mile marker as his location, more than likely without a handheld, and with backup nowhere close, and yet he does it day in and day out and he doesn't have the luxury of 20 agencies coming to his assistance if the crap hits the fan and he drops an assist. My back up can be ten minutes away and that's not fun, I ain't making fun of a man who does it without any at all.

                          Law Enforcement is about so much more than citations and traffic, that's a small part of our job, really.

                          Peace out yo, be safe and keep it fer realz
                          I disagree with you in regards to traffic stops do not deter criminal activity or even traffic offenses. People are aware if a department is a "working" one, or if an area of town has a lot of traffic stop activity. At my last department we had a reputation for stopping a lot of vehicles compared to the one next to us. Many of times I heard the dope bag say he hated coming to my city or knew about the reputation.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Se7en View Post
                            I disagree with you in regards to traffic stops do not deter criminal activity or even traffic offenses. People are aware if a department is a "working" one, or if an area of town has a lot of traffic stop activity. At my last department we had a reputation for stopping a lot of vehicles compared to the one next to us. Many of times I heard the dope bag say he hated coming to my city or knew about the reputation.
                            That strictly depends on what you're doing when conducting the traffic stops. If the department is just handing out tickets, it won't deter much...
                            “The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

                            "You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him."

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Devon
                              So what happened?, you get yelled at for not writing enough tickets?
                              Nope. Wouldn't care if they did yell at me for not writing tickets. That's not what police work is about. If a ticket needs to be written, I write it. If it doesn't need to be written, I don't write it. My supervisor's opinion of me has absolutely zero bearing on whether I do or do not because to me, that's unethical. A ticket, or any other enforcement for that matter, should only be done because it NEEDS to be done, not to satisfy supervisors, statistics, my own self esteem or anything else. The day they tell me I HAVE to write tickets or lose my job will be the day I tender my resignation.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Se7en View Post
                                I disagree with you in regards to traffic stops do not deter criminal activity or even traffic offenses. People are aware if a department is a "working" one, or if an area of town has a lot of traffic stop activity. At my last department we had a reputation for stopping a lot of vehicles compared to the one next to us. Many of times I heard the dope bag say he hated coming to my city or knew about the reputation.
                                I guess I could clarify, traffic stops probably are more of a deterrent for criminal activity but when you got someone stopped on the side of the road, that doesn't deter anyone from violating a traffic law, if anything, they figure you're tied up with the stop you're on so they can roll on by with no worries and normally they'd be right. You sitting on the freeway in hopes of the speeder coming by does nothing to deter criminal activity. You sittting on the freeway writing your speeding ticket doesn't deter other drivers from speeding either, they see you tied up with the one little fish outta the whole big pond. You actively patrolling your beat, being visible, and making stops that lead to other things, rather than just stopping and writing tickets does far more than knocking down every vehicle for every violation you see. You can run as much traffic as you want, it won't stop crime nor deter those who are intent on committing it.
                                Moooooooooooo, I'm a goat

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