No PC other than...?

[kcso]

After imacop got us all digging through the Transportation Code, I found this. Has anybody ever used this as PC to stop a vehicle? It seems there has to be more to it but it doesn't add any 'buts' or 'howevers', at least not that I can find.

Section Sec. 521.025 of the Transportation Code: LICENSE TO BE CARRIED AND EXHIBITED ON DEMAND; says:

(a) A person required to hold a license under Section 521.021 shall:

(1) have in the person's possession while operating a motor vehicle the class of driver's license appropriate for the type of vehicle operated; and

(2) display the license on the demand of a magistrate, court officer, or peace officer.

(b) A peace officer may stop and detain a person operating a motor vehicle to determine if the person has a driver's license as required by this section.

[bell4fan]

DO NOT do this!!

[Lawfficer]

The US Supreme Court ruled in Delaware v. Prouse, 440 U.S. 648 (1979) that random spot checks for valid DL or registration is an unconstitutional seizure if there is not at least articulable and reasonable suspicion that the driver is unlicensed or the vehicle is unregistered.

[kcso]

DO NOT do this!!

I agree, I wouldn't risk it. This needs to be yanked from the TC so it doesn't jam someone up who doesn't know any better.

[iamacop]

Ya, wouldn't do it dude

[SBean06]

The one exception would be if you arrested a person for no Drivers License or a Revocation and you see them a few hours later driving around, I would still in this case find a traffic violation to stop them just to be on the safe side.

[fencipede]

Agreed, random checks to enforce this is not going to cut it.

However, if I'm not mistaken (and I very well could be), Drivers License checkpoints are okay if every vehicle is stopped.

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled against random checks with no other P.C., but allowed for broader application like checkpoints. I'm uncertain about specific application in Texas.

[kcso]

Good point Bean. That reminded me that there is case law somewhere that says that if we run a tag and the registered owner is suspended, revoked or has warrants, we can make a traffic stop based on that alone. However, if the driver or occupant is not that person, we have to cut them loose. We can't then run their name or DL or take any other enforcement action, unless of course there's something in plain view. Maybe that's another reason this law was written, so it would be reinforced by statutory law.

[iamacop]

Remember guys, you don't need Probable Cause to make a traffic stop, you just need reasonable suspicioun. If I stopped a guy a few days prior and arrested him for DWLI, then I'll stop him if it is within a reasonable time from his last arrest if I see him driving again. I would probably confirm that it is still suspended, but if I forgot his name, he's still getting stop. You just need reason to believe that criminal activity is afoot....

[K9krazy21]

I'm not putting my opinion in this thread guys, I was violated last time by my thoughts lol...

Nah, I wouldn't do it.. Bad news would follow for sure...

[adeutch]

I guess it would fly if your suspicion is based on your opinion that the driver looks 8 yrs old and therefore, could not possibly have a license.

[leesrt]

Good point Bean. That reminded me that there is case law somewhere that says that if we run a tag and the registered owner is suspended, revoked or has warrants, we can make a traffic stop based on that alone. However, if the driver or occupant is not that person, we have to cut them loose. We can't then run their name or DL or take any other enforcement action, unless of course there's something in plain view. Maybe that's another reason this law was written, so it would be reinforced by statutory law.

If you do that you will then need a reason for running the tag. You can't randomly run tags. I'm sure you know this already. I'm just responding to the origional subject matter that seems go toward stretching the law rather than working with it.

[JSD73]

If you do that you will then need a reason for running the tag. You can't randomly run tags. I'm sure you know this already. I'm just responding to the origional subject matter that seems go toward stretching the law rather than working with it.

you can't randomly run tags??? There is no right to privacy to a license plate on a vehicle, I can randomly run them all day long and I DO!

If you arrest someone for no DL or DWLI and see them driving the next day, you don't even need to worry about the DL statute in the traffic code. If it's within 24 hours, you can articulate based on the known facts of your last arrest. Our local DA stated that as long as we run them thru an actual state Database, and they return as the same status, we need no PC other than our previous knowledge.

How many of you are stopping people based on the new state system for insurance confirmation? I was previously but have stopped for now...I don't know the reason for having it if it's a tool we can't utilize, but most of the DAs aren't too sure about using it as PC. I got good stuff when I was using it to knock people down but if I found someone with a valid insurance card, I cut the stop short as I had no more reason to contact them.

[usmcrob]

If you do that you will then need a reason for running the tag. You can't randomly run tags. I'm sure you know this already. I'm just responding to the origional subject matter that seems go toward stretching the law rather than working with it.

I can run any tag I see in a public place without any reason what-so-ever. Do it all the time.

[usmcrob]

How many of you are stopping people based on the new state system for insurance confirmation? I was previously but have stopped for now...I don't know the reason for having it if it's a tool we can't utilize, but most of the DAs aren't too sure about using it as PC. I got good stuff when I was using it to knock people down but if I found someone with a valid insurance card, I cut the stop short as I had no more reason to contact them.

Never have, never will. I don't trust it and here's why. I ran my vehicle and it showed my insurance was not valid. I was holding the current, valid insurance card in my hand.