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Deputy Sheriff and HR 218

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  • Deputy Sheriff and HR 218

    I read this in HR 218:

    is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

    Since deputies don't have statutory powers, can they carry under this? I guess the obvious answer is no, but I have heard they do carry when off- duty and traveling out of state.

  • #2
    ehhhhh...I would say according to the law (both LEOSA and PA law) they aren't. But a PA Constable is..go figure
    Dispatch, we have a 9-11, Armed Robbery in progress. Seay's Surplus Store, corner People's Drive and 124th Street.

    Comment


    • #3
      Are you guys sure the Statutes do not cover Sheriffs in PA?

      I found the Statutes for Police and Constables but I can't find the Governing body's rules on Sheriffs.

      I know they are working on a provision for Private Police such as College Police and such like Amtrak.

      A Constables Statute was written a very long time ago but of course the PA Courts don't really recognize such authority for them. My buddy went to classes for act 44 and they told him no more authority then a Private Citizen. Which by law is false but we know better.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by timtim View Post
        Are you guys sure the Statutes do not cover Sheriffs in PA?
        Positive... read:
        "The PA Sheriffs' Association is seeking support for House Bill 466, sponsored by Representative Craig Dally, which would give sheriffs and deputy sheriffs the statutory authority to perform law enforcement duties based on the needs of their communities.

        In February 2006, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled in a case known as Kopko that sheriffs "are not 'investigative or law enforcement officers'" under the Pennsylvania Wiretapping Act. In November 2007, the Court restated in a case called Dobbins that the sheriffs' common law authority allows only for arrests for breaches of the peace and felonies committed in their presence - authority "no different than a private citizen."

        It did not take long for Sheriffs' Offices to feel the impact of the Kopko decision. Attorney General Tom Corbett removed all 72 deputy sheriffs serving on state Drug Task Forces based on the Kopko decision. District attorneys followed suit.

        Many Sheriffs' Offices, especially those in rural areas where there are few or no municipal police forces, faced uncertainty over what law enforcement activities they could and could not perform.

        This is not a new issue. The Supreme Court has been asked to clarify the duties of sheriffs no less than five times in the past 15 years. The justices have reached the same conclusion time after time: sheriffs and deputy sheriffs need statutory authority to perform law enforcement duties. Clearly, the time is now for authority."

        www.supportpasheriffs.org
        Dispatch, we have a 9-11, Armed Robbery in progress. Seay's Surplus Store, corner People's Drive and 124th Street.

        Comment


        • #5
          Timtim.. Amtrak police fall under the rules for Street railway and railroad police as governed in Title 22 Section 3301. Plus we are governed by federal law which gives us the authority to act in the best intrests of the railroad across state lines.

          Private police such as Univ. of Penn police fall under PA Act 501 and therefore qualify as having statutory authority.

          If anything, the old "Industrial" or coal police act does not cover coal company police officers since they by law DO NOT have off duty carry.

          This state is so freaking far behind the times it is insane. Do away with MPOETC and create a POST which certifies Deputy sheriff's, constables, county detectives and ALL police officers of the state. But as we all know, if PSP mangement does not have its hand in everything LE, then it wont happen.
          I don't answer recruitment messages....

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by orlandofed5-0 View Post
            Timtim.. Amtrak police fall under the rules for Street railway and railroad police as governed in Title 22 Section 3301. Plus we are governed by federal law which gives us the authority to act in the best intrests of the railroad across state lines.

            Private police such as Univ. of Penn police fall under PA Act 501 and therefore qualify as having statutory authority.

            If anything, the old "Industrial" or coal police act does not cover coal company police officers since they by law DO NOT have off duty carry.

            This state is so freaking far behind the times it is insane. Do away with MPOETC and create a POST which certifies Deputy sheriff's, constables, county detectives and ALL police officers of the state. But as we all know, if PSP mangement does not have its hand in everything LE, then it wont happen.
            I'm not a relious man, but: AMEN BROTHA!!!!
            Dispatch, we have a 9-11, Armed Robbery in progress. Seay's Surplus Store, corner People's Drive and 124th Street.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by orlandofed5-0 View Post
              Timtim.. Amtrak police fall under the rules for Street railway and railroad police as governed in Title 22 Section 3301. Plus we are governed by federal law which gives us the authority to act in the best intrests of the railroad across state lines.

              Private police such as Univ. of Penn police fall under PA Act 501 and therefore qualify as having statutory authority.

              If anything, the old "Industrial" or coal police act does not cover coal company police officers since they by law DO NOT have off duty carry.

              This state is so freaking far behind the times it is insane. Do away with MPOETC and create a POST which certifies Deputy sheriff's, constables, county detectives and ALL police officers of the state. But as we all know, if PSP mangement does not have its hand in everything LE, then it wont happen.
              Sorry, I actually new you guys (amtrak) were good under it. I had a brain fart.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by orlandofed5-0 View Post
                Private police such as Univ. of Penn police fall under PA Act 501 and therefore qualify as having statutory authority.
                `(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified law enforcement officer' means an employee of a governmental agency who--

                `(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

                `(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

                `(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;

                `(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

                `(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

                `(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
                UPenn police are not a "government agency"... Under,

                Title 22 Pa.C.S.A. Detectives and Private Police
                Chapter 5. Private Police
                § 501. Appointment by nonprofit corporations

                a nonprofit can start a police force, like a university. If it's not a state school though, which most big name university's in PA are not state schools, then is it really a government agency, or a private police force?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mjf View Post
                  UPenn police are not a "government agency"... Under,

                  Title 22 Pa.C.S.A. Detectives and Private Police
                  Chapter 5. Private Police
                  § 501. Appointment by nonprofit corporations

                  a nonprofit can start a police force, like a university. If it's not a state school though, which most big name university's in PA are not state schools, then is it really a government agency, or a private police force?
                  It is private like PSU...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Its smantics. Univ. Of Penn police are bigger than most borough and township police forces. Just give em governor's commissions!

                    Like I said. Get rid of MPOETC and PCCD and create a POST. Get rid of the self sponser or make the standards tougher such as the way NJ PTC alternate route is run (3 interviews,60 credits etc). This way the PA job market will not be flooded like Michigan with trained recruits who can not be gainfully employed.

                    While we are at it, get rid of part time officers who have to work 5 departments just to get a decent pay check!
                    I don't answer recruitment messages....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by timtim View Post
                      It is private like PSU...
                      Penn State is a little different than other private colleges and universities. While PSU is not one of the 14 state schools under the PA State System of Higher Education, it is a state-aided university and land grant institution, receiving minimal funding from the state. To my knowledge, Police Officers at private universities only have police authority and carry powers while on duty, otherwise they have the same powers as a private citizen off duty. PSU officers are certified annually by MPOETC and issued state numbers, having all the rights and powers of a municipal police agency in PA. The same applies to U. of Pittsburgh and Temple I believe.

                      While we are at it, get rid of part time officers who have to work 5 departments just to get a decent pay check!
                      You couldn't be more right. Its sad how poorly part-time officers are compensated. Low pay, no bennies, and you have to buy your own equipment...sad.
                      Last edited by 99TAC; 09-10-2008, 08:15 PM.
                      "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        AMTRAK is also not a government agency. It is a government owned corporation. Thus it's officers are not covered under LEOSA, because they are employees of the corporation, not the government.
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distric...ice_Department

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DCPSDcop View Post
                          AMTRAK is also not a government agency. It is a government owned corporation. Thus it's officers are not covered under LEOSA, because they are employees of the corporation, not the government.

                          Alright, I will buy that but I have yet to meet an Officer that would hem a Amtrac cop up.

                          What about Transit Police, some are private so they aren't good to go then either, right?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think Penssylvania won't recognize other entities because of money.

                            If they recognize Sheriffs and others as normal everyday police they can fight for money to equal pay of their counterparts the police officer. Most Sheriffs and others do not make as much.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DCPSDcop View Post
                              AMTRAK is also not a government agency. It is a government owned corporation. Thus it's officers are not covered under LEOSA, because they are employees of the corporation, not the government.
                              Yeah thats kinda what I always thought.

                              edit: Ok I just did some research on the FOP site and this is directly from thier page:

                              I am a fully-sworn law enforcement officer with statutory law enforcement authority, but I work for a railroad, a private university or other nongovernmental employer. I attended the same police academy, received the same
                              training and meet the same qualifications as my law enforcement colleagues in my State. Am I able to carry under the provisions of H.R. 218?

                              No. You must be an employee of a local, State or Federal governmental agency to carry a firearm under the provisions of this legislation. With that said, the F.O.P. is aware of regulatory precedent in which some non-governmental agencies received a waiver or special recognition declaring them to be a governmental agency for
                              the purposes of certain sections of Title 18, Chapter 44 of the U.S. Code. The F.O.P. has investigated these precedents and has asked the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) to issue a ruling indicating that law enforcement officers of the Amtrak Police Department be considered as employees of a governmental agency for the purposes of the Law Enforcement OfficersÂ’ Safety Act. We have not yet received an official reply.
                              Last edited by fedguy889; 09-12-2008, 02:54 PM.
                              Dispatch, we have a 9-11, Armed Robbery in progress. Seay's Surplus Store, corner People's Drive and 124th Street.

                              Comment

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