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  • Senate Bill 5

    I just wanted to start a discussion on this since it appears to be getting heated. Current LEO's, what's your thoughts on dissolving collective bargaining? I've heard the teachers side of this, now more curious whether this will have a significant impact on the FOP and PO's here in Ohio.

  • #2
    Around here it is "the talk of the town" among area departments. If we lose our collective bargaining, wages WILL go down, there is no doubt about it. I also hear there is talk that he wants to tap into the our pension system to pay down the state deficit. Let me put it to you this way, if they dissolve collective bargaining and mess with my pension, health care etc., I will begin looking for work elsewhere out of the state. I have nine years into the system, and I wont hesitate to jump ship. From the guys I have talked to, I am not the minority in my thinking.

    They are starting to suck all the "perks" out of our job. You wont maintain quality people if you start taking all the benefits away. Why should I work rotating shifts with crappy days off for a crap salary and pension?
    Last edited by borninblue; 02-16-2011, 04:41 PM.
    "In valor there is hope"

    Comment


    • #3
      I am surprised there isn't more activity on this discussuon.

      I am very against it, and everyone I know in public service is concerned about it.

      It will adversely affect all our pay, and if it does away with binding arbitration then we will have no protection from any unfair treatment.
      If it passes it will be a dark day for public service in Ohio.

      Comment


      • #4
        When I left Ohio and got on with the Feds, I'm so glad that I rolled my OPERS pension into a Rollover I.R.A....... Precisely for the reason that I didn't trust the state to steward over my money fairly until I retire. It seems my fears were well founded. Ohio is a dying state, and they've now set all public emplyees in their sights as a way to generate more revenue. Kabal is right; once collective bargaining is taken away- not only will management get totally out of control, wages and benefits will also plummet. Dark days are ahead for all public employees; to include LEO's.
        Just another squirrel, tryin' to get a nut......

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        • #5
          Ohio a dying state? If it is, it is a dying state that is one of only like 4 that were in the black for 2010.

          With that being said im partial on issue 5. Unions are greedy, and the only ones that need their protection are the BAD employees. But i agree, without collective bargaining we would lose our great pay (yeah right, a select few overpaid officers in the surrounding burbs of northwest columbus cough cough) and our benefits.
          sigpic

          No, maybe I can't win, maybe the only thing I can do is just take everything he's got. But to beat me, he's gonna have to kill me, and to kill me, he's gonna have to have the heart to stand in front of me, and to do that, he's gotta be willing to die himself and I don't know if he's ready to do that. I don't know, I don't know.
          Rocky Balboa
          Rocky IV (1985)

          Id rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Lawenforcer72 View Post
            Ohio a dying state? If it is, it is a dying state that is one of only like 4 that were in the black for 2010.

            With that being said im partial on issue 5. Unions are greedy, and the only ones that need their protection are the BAD employees. But i agree, without collective bargaining we would lose our great pay (yeah right, a select few overpaid officers in the surrounding burbs of northwest columbus cough cough) and our benefits.
            I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you here, sometimes admin can get out of control with discipline among other things. Not only that, there are issues with not paying overtime when it is due. Without a contract some places can, and will get out of control. Yes some unions can get out of control just like cities can. Trust me when I tell you we have a lot more to lose than just pay and benefits. I have seen a few good guys almost get screwed over trying to do the right thing. Having the union really helped them.
            "In valor there is hope"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Lawenforcer72 View Post
              Ohio a dying state? If it is, it is a dying state that is one of only like 4 that were in the black for 2010.

              With that being said im partial on issue 5. Unions are greedy, and the only ones that need their protection are the BAD employees. But i agree, without collective bargaining we would lose our great pay (yeah right, a select few overpaid officers in the surrounding burbs of northwest columbus cough cough) and our benefits.
              In the black?? Dude, what the hell are you talking about? Have you been anywhere near NE Ohio lately? Cleveland/Akron/Youngstown? Or near the Toledo area? Or even Dayton? You're gonna honestly look me in the eye and tell me that Ohio isn't econmically depressed? I'd like some of what you're smoking.

              As far as the unions being greedy, and only protecting bad employees- I say this: You don't know what the hell you're talking about. You're the same guy who was dying to get on with Franklin County; (one of the highest paid S.O.'s in the whole state.) Don't tell me you were trying to get into that jail and work a year or two non-sworn because you enjoy being around inmates. How do you think they managed to get their great salary and bennies over the years? COLLECTIVE BARGAINING through their UNION. borninblue hit it on the head: Management often tries to slam good officers with excessive discipline for minor offenses. (Such as CPD's ridiculous policy of reprimanding and/or suspending officers caught without their hats on outside.)

              I suggest you research collective bargaining before you make comments like that.
              Just another squirrel, tryin' to get a nut......

              Comment


              • #8
                It wasnt the pay that i was looking for with FCSO, it was merely i wanted a change that would offer me atleast close to what i make now.

                Im guessing most of the people on this forum arent edumacated in the art of economics. I never said i was completely against unions, but the simple fact is between Unions and failing social security, our country will never get out of the hole its in.

                Maybe you all should quit drinking the Obama Koolaid and read for yourself.

                The union of today is not the union of our grandparents, those were real unions.

                And no i dont reside in NE or NW Ohio. Those places have been the same dumps 20 years ago as they are today. As far as dayton, they are now finally turning around to where they are opening up and actually hiring. It may not be like it was in the early 2000's but it is better.

                Our economy is very weak, but we cant expect to spend our way out of it. All it got us was 2+ trillion more in debt to the Chinese.
                Last edited by Lawenforcer72; 02-24-2011, 11:57 PM.
                sigpic

                No, maybe I can't win, maybe the only thing I can do is just take everything he's got. But to beat me, he's gonna have to kill me, and to kill me, he's gonna have to have the heart to stand in front of me, and to do that, he's gotta be willing to die himself and I don't know if he's ready to do that. I don't know, I don't know.
                Rocky Balboa
                Rocky IV (1985)

                Id rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

                Comment


                • #9
                  ^^^ Obama Koolaid? Ha, that's rich, considering I never voted for the socialist clown. But you are contradicting yourself, dude. You said in #8 that you wern't against unions. But then, you said in #5 that unions are greedy, and only protect bad employees. And if you HAD been to NE or NW Ohio, you'd think twice before posting the comments you did about Ohio "being in the black." And neither China, nor world economics, have anything to do with what we're talking about on the thread: Senate Bill 5 and collective bargaining.
                  Just another squirrel, tryin' to get a nut......

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I consider myself a far right winger! Never liked unions! Thought the same thing as lawenforcer72. Registered republican and consider myself as a teabagger (I DON'T AGREE WITH SR5). BUT after working in a union steel mill for 17 years, and now 3 years in a union police department, I know you have to have a union in some companies and cities. If we didn't have a union the city would cut our pay by 20% plus raise our contributions towards our insurance, borrow against our retirement. People who's not affected by this don't see the big deal; but what if your company came in and said they were going to cut your pay, make you pay more for your benefits, and dig into your retirement? You wouldn't like it would you? Just because we're public employees doesn't mean we should volunteer our time. We do this for the same reason other people works for other companies, to make money to pay our bills. I wouldn't do this job in this city for anything less than I make now. If they pass sr5 and they start cutting everything I'll resign, and go back to being an electrician. Yes unions protect more bad employees than good ones, but there is a lot more to an union than that. We're not greedy, we took concessions last year. We just want what we deserve.
                    Sorry for the rant, I had to vent after reading this thread.
                    Cincinnati PD

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pat8228 View Post
                      I consider myself a far right winger! Never liked unions! Thought the same thing as lawenforcer72. Registered republican and consider myself as a teabagger (I DON'T AGREE WITH SR5). BUT after working in a union steel mill for 17 years, and now 3 years in a union police department, I know you have to have a union in some companies and cities. If we didn't have a union the city would cut our pay by 20% plus raise our contributions towards our insurance, borrow against our retirement. People who's not affected by this don't see the big deal; but what if your company came in and said they were going to cut your pay, make you pay more for your benefits, and dig into your retirement? You wouldn't like it would you? Just because we're public employees doesn't mean we should volunteer our time. We do this for the same reason other people works for other companies, to make money to pay our bills. I wouldn't do this job in this city for anything less than I make now. If they pass sr5 and they start cutting everything I'll resign, and go back to being an electrician. Yes unions protect more bad employees than good ones, but there is a lot more to an union than that. We're not greedy, we took concessions last year. We just want what we deserve.
                      Sorry for the rant, I had to vent after reading this thread.
                      No reason to apologize for a rant, we all have em. All im trying to say is there are unionized factory workers making 30$ an hour to push a button. We need to find a middle agreement or else we are never going to balance our budgets nationally. One by one all of these companies are heading over seas to run things which are making people in michigan, and the last industrial cities of ohio fall apart. I mean if you have ever driven through chillicothe obviously you can see what unions did for them down there.


                      Unions do some good things, but a lot of things are flawed. Thats all i was trying to get out. There are a lot of people out there that are against the best interest of the United States that want to see all of this rioting. This is falling right in line with the plan to create social unrest all over the world.
                      sigpic

                      No, maybe I can't win, maybe the only thing I can do is just take everything he's got. But to beat me, he's gonna have to kill me, and to kill me, he's gonna have to have the heart to stand in front of me, and to do that, he's gotta be willing to die himself and I don't know if he's ready to do that. I don't know, I don't know.
                      Rocky Balboa
                      Rocky IV (1985)

                      Id rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lawenforcer72 View Post
                        Unions are greedy, and the only ones that need their protection are the BAD employees. But i agree, without collective bargaining we would lose our great pay (yeah right, a select few overpaid officers in the surrounding burbs of northwest columbus cough cough) and our benefits.
                        I know your post wasn't a slam, and I am not trying to debate, but :

                        I have worked in LE and belonged to a union for 15 years. I would never consider my union greedy. They collect reasonable union dues from each member, and have provided countless hours of legal representation and guidance in many areas. Our union attorney is a wealth of legal information anytime you need him.

                        I have also seen MANY bad employees get in trouble (rightfully so) and lose their jobs. Our union attorney has always acted fair and with our interests in mind, but has never mixed words when someone really screwed up.

                        As for the union costing taxpayers, I just can't agree with that.
                        Union dues come out of our pockets, not the departments.
                        Our fringe benefits and perks are not as good as any big company, so what's the issue there?
                        our annual raises are usually barely in line with the standard cost of living raises.
                        Our Medical insurance is not free, and the union contract only says we get medical, doesn't say anything about what we pay.

                        The union just allows us to be treated fairly and allows us to feel more than just an "employee at will."
                        Without it shady bosses will want to single out long time employees close to pension who can't go elsewhere, and will chip away at the barely competitive benefits we have now.

                        The quality of people who decide to make LE a career will be lowered and the public will suffer far worse than any economic benefit.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          UPDATE: Senate Bill 5 just passed. The Gov, I'm sure, will sign it into law. All LEO's who belong to a Union: You poor guys are screwed. Sick time and pension benefits can't be negotiated under this law; and now the state will swoop in and rob you guys for anything and everything they can get.

                          So, so, so glad that I got out of that state and took my pension with me! It's a dark day to be an OPERS employee......
                          Just another squirrel, tryin' to get a nut......

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Even though i kind of split on the union thing, the thing i dont understand is where are the Protestors are.

                            Wisconsin has TONS of people protesting, and senate bill 5 effects twice as many people in ohio as the wisconsin bill effects. AND the wisonsin bill DOES NOT effect law enforcement/firefighters.

                            So why are numbers so weak at the protest line?
                            sigpic

                            No, maybe I can't win, maybe the only thing I can do is just take everything he's got. But to beat me, he's gonna have to kill me, and to kill me, he's gonna have to have the heart to stand in front of me, and to do that, he's gotta be willing to die himself and I don't know if he's ready to do that. I don't know, I don't know.
                            Rocky Balboa
                            Rocky IV (1985)

                            Id rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It's not over yet. the State Senate passed it, but now it has to go to the State House to be passed. It is believed that the House will not pass this bill, but we will see in the near future.
                              Cincinnati PD

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