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  • ? about off-duty carry.

    I was advised by my part time job that I could not carry my weapon anymore in the building, that I would have to leave it in my car. I explained to them that they don't know how important it is to me to have a firearm on me at any given time due to my full-time job. This was stemmed after someone made a comment about me carrying a gun to work. I know of others at different locations that carry and are not LEOs.

    Now, judging by NCGS 14-269(b)(5) covers me since I don't work in an establishment that serves alcohol, or never will, so no chance for me to have alcohol in my system at the place of employment.

    This occurance has also stemmed off a post/comment that was made of upper managment that I actually was backing my store manager. Which by The United States Constitution would be a violation of my 1st amendment rights, since I in no way expressed where I worked, or posted any names for that matter.

    My question is, should I tell them to go pound sand, and if they want to press the issue to look out for a lawsuit? I am not a threatening person by no means, but I do realise when someone, or company is encroaching on my rights.

    On top of what was just posted, the business has NO sign indicating that NO CCWs allowed.

    Thanks ahead of time...

    Your fellow LEO

    -John

  • #2
    If your part time job is in your jurisdiction and your police policy and procedures manual requires you to carry, pound sand time. My opinion.
    Of course you may not work there very long but if they are that liberal minded they won't back you up on anything controversial anyway. You were looking for a job when you found that one right?
    Last edited by OneAdam12; 02-22-2011, 10:46 PM.
    Pete Malloy, "The only thing black and white about this job is the car."

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    • #3
      It's a private business and they can make whatever rules they want about firearms not being allowed in the workplace. They have no obligation to "work with you" if you are a police officer and you have no grounds for a law suit.

      Comment


      • #4
        An employer is entitled to establish reasonable terms and conditions of employment for its staff. Prohibiting its employees from being armed is not an unreasonable rule. The fact that you are a police officer in you primary employment and as such have a right to carry is irrelevant. If you want to work in the second job, you are obligated to conduct yourself according to your secondary employer's policies. If you are unwilling to conform to the requirements of you secondary job then you need to resign. If your law enforcement job requires that you be armed while off duty then the rules of your secondary job pose a conflict of interest and you need to resign.

        In an any case, you have no grounds for a lawsuit because you are unwilling to conform to reasonable rules of your secondary employer.
        Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by OneAdam12 View Post
          If your part time job is in your jurisdiction and your police policy and procedures manual requires you to carry, pound sand time. My opinion.
          Of course you may not work there very long but if they are that liberal minded they won't back you up on anything controversial anyway. You were looking for a job when you found that one right?
          I have never heard of a Police Department with a policy stating that you must carry while off duty in your jurisdiction.

          Comment


          • #6
            Ahh, there are many departments left that still require carry off duty while in your GAE. Most departments have gone to the optional route, but there are many left with the always carry policy.
            Hey Kidd, I've got more time On Meal than you have "On the Job"

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            • #7
              To the OP, did the person reporting you to management know you are a police officer? Was your firearm exposed? Just curious, as concealed is concealed and I would not have let anyone know or see my "heater"...but thats just me.

              BTW, if they don't relent its time for them to pound sand (no law suit) and you to look for another part-time job.
              Hey Kidd, I've got more time On Meal than you have "On the Job"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by L-1 View Post
                An employer is entitled to establish reasonable terms and conditions of employment for its staff. Prohibiting its employees from being armed is not an unreasonable rule. The fact that you are a police officer in you primary employment and as such have a right to carry is irrelevant. If you want to work in the second job, you are obligated to conduct yourself according to your secondary employer's policies. If you are unwilling to conform to the requirements of you secondary job then you need to resign. If your law enforcement job requires that you be armed while off duty then the rules of your secondary job pose a conflict of interest and you need to resign.

                In an any case, you have no grounds for a lawsuit because you are unwilling to conform to reasonable rules of your secondary employer.
                Not to mention that NC is a "right to work" state meaning that you are a at-will employee. They can cut you loose just because they dont like your hair and you dont have a recourse.
                If you put bacon on bacon it actually makes bacon better

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by bobbyvegas View Post
                  I have never heard of a Police Department with a policy stating that you must carry while off duty in your jurisdiction.


                  You havent seen Baltimore City's rules then.


                  Find another job. If the weapon was truly concealed as it should have been at all times then who would ever be the wiser?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Name Taken View Post
                    You havent seen Baltimore City's rules then.


                    Find another job. If the weapon was truly concealed as it should have been at all times then who would ever be the wiser?
                    We were required to have a reload and handcuffs too. I don't get it why off duty guys only carry badge and gun and not handcuffs. More likely than not in your off duty encounters you will use the handcuffs the most. I did.
                    Pete Malloy, "The only thing black and white about this job is the car."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 1911user View Post
                      To the OP, did the person reporting you to management know you are a police officer? Was your firearm exposed? Just curious, as concealed is concealed and I would not have let anyone know or see my "heater"...but thats just me.

                      BTW, if they don't relent its time for them to pound sand (no law suit) and you to look for another part-time job.
                      It was so concealed that I forgot it was even on my ankle. Yes, everyone knows I'm LEO there. I was in no way going to even do the lawsuit jive, but if they would have pressed the issue further, it would have considered.

                      I looked at the handbook for that part time job, and it does say no weapons on the premesis, but the manager and I made a mutual agreement to "keep it in the car". There could be a loophole in the handbook since it does not say "this rule includes off-duty police officers who may work at this establishment". But I'm not wasting my time with that. I'm just going to keep my nose clean and everybody happy. Im guessing that the person who "tattled" had bad juju with me, as I know who it was and I'm not opening that can of worms.

                      It is not mandatory for me to carry off-duty, but that sense of security makes me feel a LOT better when going out into public. One reason is that at that part time job I used to be full time and a LOT of people know me. And in this little county, everybody knows everything within a few minutes. Have you ever seen the movie "Hot Fuzz"? Its kinda like that minus everyone carrying heat, but some do.

                      Also, there are a few in the jail that have sworn that they will kill any cop they come across, just knowing is half the battle. I would rather have and not need, than need and not have. Second reason is there was almost an altercation that I may have needed to intervene in a few weeks ago while I was there. Good thing the DB's left.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Newbie, guns in cars, civillian or cop is a big NO-NO. 99% of the departments today have a "don't leave a firearm in an unattended vehicle" policy. I'd be surprised if your department doesn't subscribe to that policy.

                        In this day and age of Active Shooters, you would be remiss not to carry when you are authorized to do so. I don't care if you are in a major city or a one horse townp...CARRY. As corny as it sounds I'll post it again...It's better to have it and not need it...Than to need it and not have it! I would have a serious talk (again) with the OWNER, not just a manager or supervisor, the place for you firearm is on your person, not in you vehicle. You are the POLICE for Christ's Sake.
                        Hey Kidd, I've got more time On Meal than you have "On the Job"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PoliceNewbie View Post
                          It was so concealed that I forgot it was even on my ankle. Yes, everyone knows I'm LEO there. I was in no way going to even do the lawsuit jive, but if they would have pressed the issue further, it would have considered.

                          I looked at the handbook for that part time job, and it does say no weapons on the premesis, but the manager and I made a mutual agreement to "keep it in the car". There could be a loophole in the handbook since it does not say "this rule includes off-duty police officers who may work at this establishment". But I'm not wasting my time with that. I'm just going to keep my nose clean and everybody happy. I'm guessing that the person who "tattled" had bad juju with me, as I know who it was and I'm not opening that can of worms.

                          It is not mandatory for me to carry off-duty, but that sense of security makes me feel a LOT better when going out into public. One reason is that at that part time job I used to be full time and a LOT of people know me. And in this little county, everybody knows everything within a few minutes. Have you ever seen the movie "Hot Fuzz"? Its kinda like that minus everyone carrying heat, but some do.

                          Also, there are a few in the jail that have sworn that they will kill any cop they come across, just knowing is half the battle. I would rather have and not need, than need and not have. Second reason is there was almost an altercation that I may have needed to intervene in a few weeks ago while I was there. Good thing the DB's left.
                          Let me ask you a question. Obviously your second job is not security for the company. Does your employer expect you to handle any disturbance situations? If so, because you are a cop or because it is in your job description?
                          If he does not expect it, I wouldn't do it. Especially after he defanged you.
                          What are you supposed to do as an off duty police officer according to PD policy if you do have a disturbance and it is an immediate problem?
                          Last edited by OneAdam12; 02-23-2011, 11:11 PM.
                          Pete Malloy, "The only thing black and white about this job is the car."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by OneAdam12 View Post
                            Let me ask you a question. Obviously your second job is not security for the company. Does your employer expect you to handle any disturbance situations? If so, because you are a cop or because it is in your job description?
                            If he does not expect it, I wouldn't do it. Especially after he defanged you.
                            What are you supposed to do as an off duty police officer according to PD policy if you do have a disturbance and it is an immediate problem?
                            No. my employer does not expect security from me. I am going to review my SOP for the department, if it requires me to carry off-duty, then they will just have to pound sand. If not, I will try to contact upper management and see what can be done. I do have a question/comment though... Federal law supersedes State law right? Wouldn't a state's statute's override a company's policy? I might be getting in deeper than I should, but I'm just curious.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This has been discussed pretty much at length in other threads. The owner of private property has the right to dictate the terms and conditions upon which access will be granted to guests, visitors and employees. HR 218 does not override that right. As an example, many privately owned entertainment venues such as Disney routinely prohibit police officers who are guests from entering their parks while armed. They have a choice of leaving their weapon elsewhere or not coming in.

                              Unless you are entering your secondary employer's premises in your official capacity as a police officer, you are SOL when it comes to demanding to be armed,

                              Its really quite simple. If your secondary employer says no weapons you need to make a choice - be unarmed or give up the job.

                              OTOH if your department SOP says you must be armed when off duty then holding a job where weapons are prohibited poses a conflict of interest then you will need to resign from one job or the other.

                              Remember, telling your secondary employer to pound sand does not bode well. It says you are unwilling or unable to conform to the requirements of the job and is grounds for termination for cause. Blaming it on your department policy will get you laughed at. Consider the following phone conversation between your boss and your chief.

                              Your boss: Hey Chief, one of your officers is moonlighting for me selling auto parts. I have a policy that prohibits my employees from carrying weapons on the premises. Your guy says you told him he has to carry a gun while he's working in my store. Now some of my other employees say they want to bring weapons to work. I don't want guns in my store. Who are you to insist that someone working for me carry a gun?

                              I suspect you will be in the chief's office the next morning doing a little explaining.
                              Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

                              Comment

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