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  • BLETfun
    replied
    Originally posted by Smurfette_76 View Post
    Hon, if your felony charges are appearing in district court then they've already done the deal behind the scenes or the other clue is never having gone to grand jury on it...it's being pled down.
    The ole plea bargain.

    Leave a comment:


  • BLETfun
    replied
    Originally posted by Custodian View Post
    Well you know all the inmates do a song & dance for anyone who is not in uniform. Correctional Administration included. W hen the wardens come around, inmates are either all smiles OR frowns because the mean ol' officers done hurt their feelings & stifled their positive reinforcement. Bottom line, inmates are manipulative.

    But you know what? If you don't have a complain by an inmate against you by the time you have a few years on the job then you haven't been engaging in damn fine correctional work.
    Well put and nothing to add.

    Leave a comment:


  • Smurfette_76
    replied
    Originally posted by suprtrpr View Post
    well the problem is (and is probably true with this case) is that he has probably not gone to trial on the first charge. the court system is so screwed up that they let them keep continuing cases as long as they want. ive got felony drug charges (YES A TROOPER HAS FELONY DRUG CHARGES) that have been pending for over a year. i see it a lot in court, they keep continuing them and when they get so many different counts of the same charge, they plea to one count to have the rest dropped. that is unacceptable. i know all of you see it to. that is another reaon the P&P system is so screwed up. if they would give those scumbags some actual time behind bars instead of slapping their hand and telling them not to do it again, maybe some things could streamline a little.

    Hon, if your felony charges are appearing in district court then they've already done the deal behind the scenes or the other clue is never having gone to grand jury on it...it's being pled down.

    Leave a comment:


  • Custodian
    replied
    Well you know all the inmates do a song & dance for anyone who is not in uniform. Correctional Administration included. W hen the wardens come around, inmates are either all smiles OR frowns because the mean ol' officers done hurt their feelings & stifled their positive reinforcement. Bottom line, inmates are manipulative.

    But you know what? If you don't have a complain by an inmate against you by the time you have a few years on the job then you haven't been engaging in damn fine correctional work.

    Leave a comment:


  • BLETfun
    replied
    Originally posted by Custodian View Post
    The problem is that a lot of the administration has never put on a C/Os uniform. Like people who came from programs versus operations. This problem goes straight to the top with most of the higher ups come from DCC versus DOP which has never made sense. An AWP should only be able to move up if they were first an officer for about 18 months.

    All P/P officers should have had to do at least 18 months inside an institution (specifically a medium or close custody) before even being interviewed as a P/P officer or a Surveillance officer. This would also end the problem of having uncertified P/P officers, which shouldn't happen. I think you should be certified long before you walk into an institution.
    Especially when you stick a phsyciatrist in the lead spot who thinks inmates ALL are capable of good and rehabilitation. Dillusional at best. I agree everyone should start as a CO even if you are hired for another position that should be a requirement. I remember a comment made by the warden that he had many years education into the human phsyci and absolutely nothing can replace education. A senior officer with 19 years in told him to go try to use that education on the floor and we would see how soon it took to get his a88 whooped.

    The thing is the warden never passed the Master Control doors other than to go back to the Captains loop. Sad but true.
    Last edited by BLETfun; 08-26-2008, 03:43 PM.

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  • BLETfun
    replied
    Originally posted by bamacop View Post
    They sure are. I worked in NC for five years, and it always seemed that city cops and troopers didn't get along. Seemed there was a better working relationship between SO and the Troopers though. One incident I remember when I worked in NC was the word going on about some kind of ticket war between the Troopers and C/M Metro. IIRC a Trooper wrote a C/M Metro officer a ticket when he was on his way to a call. Got pretty bad and Col. Barefoot, Trooper commander (I think that was his name) had to come C/M Metro and get things calmed down. C/M officers started writing tickets to troopers on duty and it went back and forth. This was back in 90-91 IIRC.
    Kinda blew proffesional curtousy out the window didnt it ,not to mention being childish on both sides.
    Last edited by BLETfun; 08-26-2008, 03:42 PM. Reason: 1

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  • bamacop
    replied
    Originally posted by towncop View Post
    Damn you guys are a touchy bunch!
    They sure are. I worked in NC for five years, and it always seemed that city cops and troopers didn't get along. Seemed there was a better working relationship between SO and the Troopers though. One incident I remember when I worked in NC was the word going on about some kind of ticket war between the Troopers and C/M Metro. IIRC a Trooper wrote a C/M Metro officer a ticket when he was on his way to a call. Got pretty bad and Col. Barefoot, Trooper commander (I think that was his name) had to come C/M Metro and get things calmed down. C/M officers started writing tickets to troopers on duty and it went back and forth. This was back in 90-91 IIRC.

    Leave a comment:


  • Custodian
    replied
    The problem is that a lot of the administration has never put on a C/Os uniform. Like people who came from programs versus operations. This problem goes straight to the top with most of the higher ups come from DCC versus DOP which has never made sense. An AWP should only be able to move up if they were first an officer for about 18 months.

    All P/P officers should have had to do at least 18 months inside an institution (specifically a medium or close custody) before even being interviewed as a P/P officer or a Surveillance officer. This would also end the problem of having uncertified P/P officers, which shouldn't happen. I think you should be certified long before you walk into an institution.
    Last edited by Custodian; 08-26-2008, 12:46 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BLETfun
    replied
    Originally posted by Custodian View Post
    Okay BLETFun here are some changes in BCOT.
    They were trying out the Navy blues when I left ,but only the transport guys wore them. The warden ,who was a pshyciatrist and never a CO ,thought they were too "intimidating" to the inmates to wear inside the prison. I think they look more proffesional and "official" than the old security guard specials. Man those grey pants ,wind ,cold ,heat ,basically any type of weather goes right through them. I remember one night we had ice on the ground and it was in the teens my lucky self gets to walk the dog walk ,the perimeter ,clean the honey hole ,and do the door checks. By the time I got through I had to de-ice my fellows for what seems like 8 of the 12 hours ,lol. That was a rough night!

    It seems they changed some things within the DOC but I guarantee ,like before ,most is lost within the ranks. I just wish the administration in Raleigh would change more things in favor of the CO's instead of against them. Honestly CO's have a dangerous job and the way the policies are laid out by the state only compounds an already dangerous job. Anytime you spray an inmate you have tons of paperwork and two weeks of interviewing for doing your job the same job you can loose for doing what you are trained to do,thats why many never use the OC they are provided. Little things like this is what needs to change ,for CO safety. I mean dang ,the inmate has to basically be irrate or assaulting you before they will justify a spraying ,at least at the Institution I was at. I guess it stems from all of those Rambo's spraying inmates for no reason ,that happens quiet a bit.
    Last edited by BLETfun; 08-26-2008, 12:06 PM. Reason: 1

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  • Custodian
    replied
    Okay BLETFun here are some changes in BCOT.

    No more "self defense videos" they teach a half-baked system that COULD be decent, however, its taught in under 2 days. Is that long enough to learn a rudimentary martial art? NO! The art is called CRDT.

    http://www.doc.state.nc.us/OSDT/Forms/Syllabus_INT.pdf

    NCDOC mentions it on the internet, so its no real secret.

    The mentoring system is gone (at least at my institution) , because DOP doesn't want to pay mentors (they are at a higher pay grade, usually making Corporal d/b/a Lead Correctional Officer pay) anymore or pay new ones [at least at my institution]. Many mentors are now inactive. So you are switched around quite a bit with different people on your training days. A bad idea. I had to learn Corrections through a trial by fire approach. It wasn't pretty.

    Very little law is taught mostly policy & you are taught to unlearn that because SOP can be different from DOP policy. Once again a waste of time.

    There is only a nighttime "familiarization" course for firearms, no night qualifications. Even though everyone I saw shot better at night anyways, why not make the scores count?

    BCOT is only 20 days long and only 5 of those days are 12 hours in length, the others are just 8 hours. Mostly watching old videos of BOP & Sheriff department jails, very few NCDOC/DOP made videos.

    Very little Physical Training (CRDT oriented).

    Bottom line? BCOT needs to be around 2-4.5 months & needs to be ripped from the BLET pages with just an emphasis on prisons, with some policies, constitutional & state law, physical training, day & nighttime firearms qualification (thats how Probation/Parole d/b/a DCC does it), and SCAT instead of CRDT.

    You are taught that you are "Criminal Justice Officers" even though Federal & State law says you are Law Enforcement & that what your paychecks say too. Nothing is mentioned about LEOSA.

    You just need someone with the guts to do it. And that I don't see on the horizon.

    Something else bothers me. I don't understand why DOP uses a paramilitary structure & then does away with it at the higher pay grades (anything above Captain)?

    Correctional Officer Trainee (no certification, & a liability)

    Correctional Officer (certified, the system's bread and butter; first supervisor to inmates (though inmates don't want you to know this & they are always looking to a Sergeant to override you, can be made acting Sergeants for those who have been around a long time, they just don't get the pay when they are temporarily appointed)

    Lead Correctional Officer (after 18 months you can be this rank, if you apply.wears a corporal's 2 stripe chevron, HOWEVER, they are only found in the Transportation department. Mentors use to make their pay without wearing their rank. Not necessarily supervisors, but are made one when the Sergeant has a crappy task to do)

    Correctional Sergeant (Standard Buck Sergeants, first line supervisors. Sergeants have the hardest jobs because they can be moved to any shift or rotation & has to come in on their off days.)

    Correctional Lieutenant (first line supervisor's boss, can also be a unit manager or AOIC)

    Correctional Captain (heads of department or OIC, now can also be plain clothed, when we changed uniforms to the navy blue)
    Last edited by Custodian; 08-26-2008, 08:01 AM.

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  • BLETfun
    replied
    Originally posted by Custodian View Post
    It just seems there needs to be an overhaul of the system. There is too much punishment for non-violent offenders while violent offenders get off easy. Sense is not made. Also, there is not enough training for C/Os on dealing with inmates & convicts. Most of your time in BCOT is in a sterile classroom & you don't really learn how to apply it effectively. This is something you learn (maybe) on your own & hopefully soon.
    The "self defense" class they teach is just enough to get you really hurt. They let you watch videos of a situation and ask what you would do ,heck who knows at that time and in "close to real time" it gets even harder to decide. I had the luxury of just getting thrown out on the floor by myself at Western Youth and learning the ropes myself. I did good because I have the street experience to deal with the criminal element (thanks to a "wonderful law abiding" family lol) and the inmates could see that. Anybody who has been in a sheltered life would benefit from not working in that type of environment. They will end up hurt or worse because the inmates can sense a vulnerable person.

    They do the 1 month deal to "prepare" you for the time you go to the floor and how to deal with the inmates but no class time they give is even close to the real deal. These guys have 24\7 365 to find ways to get over on you ,from costing you a job ,to jail time ,and they will happily blackmail you. Thats one thing you MUST posses is common sense and some street smarts ,these two things are the best weapons you have. I honestly feel the BCOT program is lacking majorly and is a waste of tax payers dollars ,the mentor program did more for me than the BCOT. The use of force laws are a HIGHLY needed part of training but most of the other facets were ,well ,useless.

    I just hope they do an overhaul on the whole BCOT program for the safety of the CO's.
    Last edited by BLETfun; 08-25-2008, 10:21 PM. Reason: 1

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  • BLETfun
    replied
    Originally posted by suprtrpr View Post
    well the problem is (and is probably true with this case) is that he has probably not gone to trial on the first charge. the court system is so screwed up that they let them keep continuing cases as long as they want. ive got felony drug charges (YES A TROOPER HAS FELONY DRUG CHARGES) that have been pending for over a year. i see it a lot in court, they keep continuing them and when they get so many different counts of the same charge, they plea to one count to have the rest dropped. that is unacceptable. i know all of you see it to. that is another reaon the P&P system is so screwed up. if they would give those scumbags some actual time behind bars instead of slapping their hand and telling them not to do it again, maybe some things could streamline a little.
    This is sad and an everyday occurance. This is why you have so many repeat offenders ,a lack of real guts in the penal system.

    Leave a comment:


  • Custodian
    replied
    It just seems there needs to be an overhaul of the system. There is too much punishment for non-violent offenders while violent offenders get off easy. Sense is not made. Also, there is not enough training for C/Os on dealing with inmates & convicts. Most of your time in BCOT is in a sterile classroom & you don't really learn how to apply it effectively. This is something you learn (maybe) on your own & hopefully soon.

    Leave a comment:


  • suprtrpr
    replied
    Originally posted by BLETfun View Post
    I am not sure but does NC not have a 3 strike system ,if not it's time for it.
    well the problem is (and is probably true with this case) is that he has probably not gone to trial on the first charge. the court system is so screwed up that they let them keep continuing cases as long as they want. ive got felony drug charges (YES A TROOPER HAS FELONY DRUG CHARGES) that have been pending for over a year. i see it a lot in court, they keep continuing them and when they get so many different counts of the same charge, they plea to one count to have the rest dropped. that is unacceptable. i know all of you see it to. that is another reaon the P&P system is so screwed up. if they would give those scumbags some actual time behind bars instead of slapping their hand and telling them not to do it again, maybe some things could streamline a little.

    Leave a comment:


  • BLETfun
    replied
    Originally posted by Custodian View Post
    Hopefully the jails are tougher than the prison system. If I don't like it there, I can still do BLET. It just seems I'm moving up the letter system BCOT, BDOT, & BLET.
    LOL ,True.

    Leave a comment:

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