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  • NYC HR218/LEOSA- peace officers

    In NYC there are certain agencies that have their officers carry on duty only with a permit issued by the NYPD. After their tour they turn their weapons in.

    If they are a sworn LEO working for a governemnt agency who have arrest powers, shouldn't they be covered under HR218 to carry a personal firearm off duty? How would one go about legally doing so without getting jammed up? Doesn't hr218 overwrite local and state laws? Would the NYPD have to issue you a unrestricted full carry permit like they do for retired police officers?

  • #2
    NYC is a whole different animal. They don't give a **** who you are.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by FrankRizzo16 View Post
      In NYC there are certain agencies that have their officers carry on duty only with a permit issued by the NYPD. After their tour they turn their weapons in.

      If they are a sworn LEO working for a governemnt agency who have arrest powers, shouldn't they be covered under HR218 to carry a personal firearm off duty? How would one go about legally doing so without getting jammed up? Doesn't hr218 overwrite local and state laws? Would the NYPD have to issue you a unrestricted full carry permit like they do for retired police officers?
      From a legal standpoint the agency ( if you mean like special officers ) can have NYPD issue you a pistol permit however legally you can not be arrested for it. Your department on the other hand might discipline you though in regards. I was a special officer for the Bronx DA that wanted to start issuing their officers permits again but I left before I got me ( grass wasnt greener on that side ) and I know DCAS has their officers armed and so do the Manhattan DAs however they do not allow them to carry off duty. Clock in get your gun clock out and put back your gun. In the long run if you gotta get a permit from 1pp follow those guidelines ESPECIALLY if you dont have any faith in your union!

      PS Dont go printing either!

      Comment


      • #4
        As long as you meet the criteria for LEOSA you are "legally" allowed to carry but your agency can still take action against you if you violate policy.

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        • #5
          The conundrum is that in NYS you need a permit to own a firearm. If you are issued a limited carry permit that leaves the weapon in the ownership of the agency you could face a local problem carrying under LEOSA.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dinosaur32 View Post
            The conundrum is that in NYS you need a permit to own a firearm. If you are issued a limited carry permit that leaves the weapon in the ownership of the agency you could face a local problem carrying under LEOSA.
            Correct, Lt. LEOSA HR 218 pertains only to the carrying of a handgun nationally. Nothing is stated about purchasing or possessing a pistol according to the statues.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 802Deputy View Post
              As long as you meet the criteria for LEOSA you are "legally" allowed to carry but your agency can still take action against you if you violate policy.
              In New York State, as Dinosaur32 previously wrote; one must possess a pistol license to own a handgun. According to the OP certain peace officer agencies in NYC allow their officers to carry a 'departmental' weapon while on duty but must turn said firearm in after their tour is over. This is done on a limited carry PL issued by NYPD since these 'special officers' can not carry a handgun without a pistol license. The vast majority of NYC public employees reside within the confine of the five boroughs and it is doubtful that NYPD would issue full carry license to any of these 'special patrolman' that work for these agencies. NYC Probation and Correction officers are covered under the Criminal Procedure Law and may possess/carry a handgun without the need of obtaining a pistol license. However; this classification of employees are subject to the rules and regulations of their respective agencies as to possessing a pistol off-duty.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by CountyCorrectionOfficer View Post

                In New York State, as Dinosaur32 previously wrote; one must possess a pistol license to own a handgun. According to the OP certain peace officer agencies in NYC allow their officers to carry a 'departmental' weapon while on duty but must turn said firearm in after their tour is over. This is done on a limited carry PL issued by NYPD since these 'special officers' can not carry a handgun without a pistol license. The vast majority of NYC public employees reside within the confine of the five boroughs and it is doubtful that NYPD would issue full carry license to any of these 'special patrolman' that work for these agencies. NYC Probation and Correction officers are covered under the Criminal Procedure Law and may possess/carry a handgun without the need of obtaining a pistol license. However; this classification of employees are subject to the rules and regulations of their respective agencies as to possessing a pistol off-duty.
                You see you have the terms confused. Special Officers have 24/7 NYS peace officer status under the CPL ( at least I know my agency does ) and special patrolman must go to the NYPD commissioner to receive their status! Two different statuses in the CPL. For example coop city, parkchester public safety, starrett city ( I believe is now spring creek ), sea gate all go to NYPD to receive their special patrolman status. While agencies like mine who are employed by the city and arent given that status. DCAS, Bronx DA, and Manhattan DA all send their special officers to training which from my understanding from LEOSA covers the employees to carry however they still send their officers to get a pistol permit because the NYS CPL does not permit us to carry a firearm without the issuance of one. In DHS some officers and all sergeants and above are issued the X26P taser and we dont go to NYPD ( as far as I know havent received my own as of yet ) to receive a license to carry such.

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                • OC801
                  OC801 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  We were able to get our HR218 card while at Starrett.

              • #9
                Sea Gate has their own line in the CPL. They are NOT special patrolmen.
                Play stupid games and win stupid prizes. An all expenses paid trip with travel, meals, and accommodations included!

                Comment


                • #10
                  This seems like an issue that can be fought in court. I don't think there is enough people who fall into this category where it was even ever brought up, those special officers and nyc sanitation police are probably the only ones who would fall under this. I know DOI carrys on a special license which allows them to carry 24/7. HR218 is very clear as to who it covers, and if you are a city employee who is a sworn LEO, with arrest powers, who's agency trained and authorizes to carry, you should be covered. NYC can not overwrite hr218. The NYS CPL says these titles can not possess of a firearm without a permit right? So that means that you are capable of obtaining a permit if you wanted to carry, or at least it should.

                  What if you have a home premises license and are traveling to the range with your firearm? You actually have to have it in a lock box like a civilian, with the ammo seperate, even though you are a LEO and covered under federal law to carry?

                  How about this tricky one....What if you are in one of these jobs but reside in rockland or orange county where you can actually get a full carry permit. Shouldn't you 110% be covered to carry off duty in NYC or anywhere else for that matter?


                  NYS as a whole seems to not even be part of America.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Originally posted by CountyCorrectionOfficer View Post

                    In New York State, as Dinosaur32 previously wrote; one must possess a pistol license to own a handgun. According to the OP certain peace officer agencies in NYC allow their officers to carry a 'departmental' weapon while on duty but must turn said firearm in after their tour is over. This is done on a limited carry PL issued by NYPD since these 'special officers' can not carry a handgun without a pistol license. The vast majority of NYC public employees reside within the confine of the five boroughs and it is doubtful that NYPD would issue full carry license to any of these 'special patrolman' that work for these agencies. NYC Probation and Correction officers are covered under the Criminal Procedure Law and may possess/carry a handgun without the need of obtaining a pistol license. However; this classification of employees are subject to the rules and regulations of their respective agencies as to possessing a pistol off-duty.
                    Which is why I noted that they must meet the criteria of LEOSA to be covered. If any of the pieces are missing (such as the proper ID) they won't be covered.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by FrankRizzo16 View Post
                      This seems like an issue that can be fought in court. I don't think there is enough people who fall into this category where it was even ever brought up, those special officers and nyc sanitation police are probably the only ones who would fall under this. I know DOI carrys on a special license which allows them to carry 24/7. HR218 is very clear as to who it covers, and if you are a city employee who is a sworn LEO, with arrest powers, who's agency trained and authorizes to carry, you should be covered. NYC can not overwrite hr218. The NYS CPL says these titles can not possess of a firearm without a permit right? So that means that you are capable of obtaining a permit if you wanted to carry, or at least it should.

                      What if you have a home premises license and are traveling to the range with your firearm? You actually have to have it in a lock box like a civilian, with the ammo seperate, even though you are a LEO and covered under federal law to carry?

                      How about this tricky one....What if you are in one of these jobs but reside in rockland or orange county where you can actually get a full carry permit. Shouldn't you 110% be covered to carry off duty in NYC or anywhere else for that matter?


                      NYS as a whole seems to not even be part of America.
                      I dont believe a on duty officer will give you problem if they're competent enough to know they will probably have a problem or their supervisor will just say throw it out knowing HR218. Now getting one period without a permit will be a problem. I doubt NYPD will just fork over a unlimited carry without the agencies approval and if the agency didnt want you to have it than you're stuck in a clock in pick it up clock out put it back situation. It's a bit wacky but hey no one really wants to test their luck like those COs in I believe washington DC who are suing because they say they face retaliation off the job and even after being retired.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by 802Deputy View Post

                        Which is why I noted that they must meet the criteria of LEOSA to be covered. If any of the pieces are missing (such as the proper ID) they won't be covered.
                        Wouldnt you agency ID qualify as proper enough ID?

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by Decided View Post
                          Sea Gate has their own line in the CPL. They are NOT special patrolmen.
                          Didnt even know that. wonder if they finally picked up their pay. I heard they were hiring part time for like $10. Wouldnt even do that unless it was for $15 minimum

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by The hopeful View Post

                            You see you have the terms confused. Special Officers have 24/7 NYS peace officer status under the CPL ( at least I know my agency does ) and special patrolman must go to the NYPD commissioner to receive their status! Two different statuses in the CPL. For example coop city, parkchester public safety, starrett city ( I believe is now spring creek ), sea gate all go to NYPD to receive their special patrolman status. While agencies like mine who are employed by the city and arent given that status. DCAS, Bronx DA, and Manhattan DA all send their special officers to training which from my understanding from LEOSA covers the employees to carry however they still send their officers to get a pistol permit because the NYS CPL does not permit us to carry a firearm without the issuance of one. In DHS some officers and all sergeants and above are issued the X26P taser and we dont go to NYPD ( as far as I know havent received my own as of yet ) to receive a license to carry such.

                            HR218...

                            Is what allows a LEO whose department's policy either authorizes or doesn't restricts their LEOs from carrying off duty,

                            To carry interstate.


                            What a wrote in RED, is all HR218 is.

                            Possessing and Carrying a firearm offduty or onduty by a LEO, is Authorize or Restricted by LEO's department.






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