Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

1811 vs. NYPD questions

Collapse

300x250 Mobile

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 1811 vs. NYPD questions

    I had a few questions about the overall benefits/retirement package of an ATF or DEA 1811 position vs NYPD tier3 a. I remember seeing a thread around here that had the salary/retirement numbers of an NYPD officer vs a NYC 1811, but i can't find it. For an 1811 position is it 1.7% for each year up to 20 years then 1% after 20 until retirement? Would an 1811 with 25 years get 39% of their high 3 years salary? Does that include LEAP and COLA? What would a top grade 1811 retire at in NYC? Are there any 1811's on here who were former nypd? Thanks
    Exam 70XX
    4Q

  • #2
    This is copied from another website for you:

    The Feds give 1.7% a year. But look at the big picture and not a small item. Say you retire with a $150K, the current Captain is at $141K max and as you all know, as you move up in the ranks, OT chances decrease so say $9K. 50% pension equals $75K. Plus what you did in deferred comp…and I mean WHAT YOU PUT IN with the interest.

    Feds give you 1.7% per year, for the first 20. So 1.7% @ 20 years = 34%. As an agent, not supervisor, in the NY metro with LEAP and locality, as a GS13-10 is $150,313. Typical place for any guy or gal with 15 years on as an agent.

    So if your hired at 30 and leave at 50 (can't retire earlier) with 20 in, you get $51,106. But get hired earlier or stay longer, up to 57, and you get 1% for each year beyond 20 you do. And staying while a fed is not a problem since getting fired is impossible unless you commit a crime.


    Additionally, as an 1811, when you retire, you have your Thrift Savings Plan or TSP. Same as the deferred comp, except the government contributes if you contribute. If you put in 5%, the agency puts in 1% and the government matches 4%. So you bi-weekly 5% is really 10%. While you put every dollar of the limit into deferred comp you can ($15,550) to max out, fed LEO's put in $7,750 and get credit for $15550 after the match! Take the other $7750 a year and put it in a basic savings with 2% interest for 20 years and you end up with $201K tax free (The variable supplement only lasts as long as you live….this is in the bank and guaranteed for the family beyond).

    And then the secret most don't know. Feds get what is called a social security supplement. In simplest terms, they determine what you monthly benefit would be if you retired at 62 and a half based upon your service as a federal employee. You then collect that amount monthly, immediately, and get it until you turn 62 and half and can start collecting social security. In today's dollars, at 33 years old, the SSA states my rate would be $1825 per month.

    So if eligible with today's dollar figures, and if I was 50 and retired, I would get 37% (23 years) or $55,615, plus the SS Supplement of $21,900 or $77,515. That is $2K more than a Captain with $150K salary in the NYPD. How many on here are captains at that point? And over the 20 years, I did not buy gas to commute, put wear and tear on the car, didn't pay for tolls, had weekends off, had holidays off, didn't have to fight to take a vacation, and worked 50 hours a week.

    Google thee rant 1811 pension and you can see other breakdowns on other sites

    Comment


    • #3
      A couple of things NYPD guys get that tend to get overlooked. Every NYPD cop get a certain amount of annuity money for each day worked. Each rank gets a different amount. That money is is held and managed by the union like a 401 account. Another thing is that the longevity money now ( as of the last contract) gets the percentage increase along with the contractual salary increases.

      Comment


      • #4
        NYPD captains make a lot more than 140,000 at the end of the day. The 140k is top base pay on the old contract. It does not include night diff, and holiday pay. A captain can and do make over 160, 000 to 170,000. This does not include the variable supplement when they retire which is 12,000 a year more when they retire. And if they are in rank more than 5 years they get a deputy inspector's pension. It does not include IHTP bump if they contribute. All this without the benefit of cash overtime-- they can only get comp time. Many build over a year in comp time and "run" their time at the end-- basically a paid vacation for that time.

        Pension-wise. The NYPD teir 2 beats federal in the short term. A sergeant who hits the overtime cap makes more than 150, 000 a year. With the IHTP ( increased take home waiver) contributions which get a guaranteed rate of 8.25% interest a year, after twenty years, the annuity rate of the pension IHTP can be as high as 2000 dollars or more a month. After twenty years the mandatory contribution amount does not go up and all contributions go to that annuity of the surplus with adds more to the pension in addition to the 1/60 of very dollar earned after your 20th year. I know of a Lt who did 27 years who takes home about 9500 a month after taxes in his pension not including his variable supplement or his 457 plan. And he did not get a 3/4 disability pension. If he did he could have taken home more than 11000.

        And when he hits 62, he can choose to get social security then like most workers in addition to his pension.

        A detective squad sergeant with the SDS pay makes the same. A LT with SDS makes captain pay with cash O/T and can make over 200,000 a year. Sergeant in Narco and some other specialized units don't have a cap on O/T

        http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1958950

        All the numbers cited are out of date because they have been out of contract for more than 3 years and retroactive raises occur with new contracts to the start of where the old contract ended.

        Where the federal pension gets better than tier 2 is with COLA-- no worries about inflation. The so-called COLA that the NYPD has applies only to the first 18,000 is indexed at half the federal cola and has a max of 3%-- not much at all.

        What NYPD/nys officers also get is that our pensions are NYS tax free when we collect them. We pay taxes on the contributions to our pensions while we are working. So our take home pay is often higher when we retire than when we working.

        Take a look at some of our pensions-- the top guys are chiefs who stayed 40 years but this should give you an idea of the possibilities at tier 2

        http://seethroughny.net/pensions/
        .
        But to the argument, NYPD vs federal. Federal will give you a better work environment by far. And it is much better than tier 3

        Tier 3 requires for a full pension 22.5 years. To get the full escalation ( a type of COLA with a 3% max) benefit, you would have to work until 25 years is completed. And when you hit age 62, your pension is reduced by half the calculated value of your social security benefit even if you elect to wait to receive those benefits. You do not get the 3/4 disability if you are crippled in the line of duty that the tier 2 officers get. There is a female tier three officer who was burned in a fire, if they force her out on disability, her benefit is less than welfare - literally.

        There is no IHTP for tier 3 and no benefit to staying past twenty five years.

        Comment


        • #5
          You're better off working for a PD in Long Island, Westchester or Rockland where a PO makes 160K a year without killing themselves.

          Comment


          • #6
            It should be added that fed retirees get yearly COLA's.

            I'm a retired 1811 and I'm grossing a bit more than 2/3 of my final salary, but I'm netting more than I did when I was working.
            Last edited by GoldBadge; 01-23-2015, 11:09 AM.
            I’ll die with blue in my veins.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by crj11472 View Post
              NYPD captains make a lot more than 140,000 at the end of the day. The 140k is top base pay on the old contract. It does not include night diff, and holiday pay. A captain can and do make over 160, 000 to 170,000. This does not include the variable supplement when they retire which is 12,000 a year more when they retire. And if they are in rank more than 5 years they get a deputy inspector's pension. It does not include IHTP bump if they contribute. All this without the benefit of cash overtime-- they can only get comp time. Many build over a year in comp time and "run" their time at the end-- basically a paid vacation for that time.

              Pension-wise. The NYPD teir 2 beats federal in the short term. A sergeant who hits the overtime cap makes more than 150, 000 a year. With the IHTP ( increased take home waiver) contributions which get a guaranteed rate of 8.25% interest a year, after twenty years, the annuity rate of the pension IHTP can be as high as 2000 dollars or more a month. After twenty years the mandatory contribution amount does not go up and all contributions go to that annuity of the surplus with adds more to the pension in addition to the 1/60 of very dollar earned after your 20th year. I know of a Lt who did 27 years who takes home about 9500 a month after taxes in his pension not including his variable supplement or his 457 plan. And he did not get a 3/4 disability pension. If he did he could have taken home more than 11000.

              And when he hits 62, he can choose to get social security then like most workers in addition to his pension.

              A detective squad sergeant with the SDS pay makes the same. A LT with SDS makes captain pay with cash O/T and can make over 200,000 a year. Sergeant in Narco and some other specialized units don't have a cap on O/T

              http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1958950

              All the numbers cited are out of date because they have been out of contract for more than 3 years and retroactive raises occur with new contracts to the start of where the old contract ended.

              Where the federal pension gets better than tier 2 is with COLA-- no worries about inflation. The so-called COLA that the NYPD has applies only to the first 18,000 is indexed at half the federal cola and has a max of 3%-- not much at all.

              What NYPD/nys officers also get is that our pensions are NYS tax free when we collect them. We pay taxes on the contributions to our pensions while we are working. So our take home pay is often higher when we retire than when we working.

              Take a look at some of our pensions-- the top guys are chiefs who stayed 40 years but this should give you an idea of the possibilities at tier 2

              http://seethroughny.net/pensions/
              .
              But to the argument, NYPD vs federal. Federal will give you a better work environment by far. And it is much better than tier 3

              Tier 3 requires for a full pension 22.5 years. To get the full escalation ( a type of COLA with a 3% max) benefit, you would have to work until 25 years is completed. And when you hit age 62, your pension is reduced by half the calculated value of your social security benefit even if you elect to wait to receive those benefits. You do not get the 3/4 disability if you are crippled in the line of duty that the tier 2 officers get. There is a female tier three officer who was burned in a fire, if they force her out on disability, her benefit is less than welfare - literally.

              There is no IHTP for tier 3 and no benefit to staying past twenty five years.
              Just would like to add the variable supplement paid to retirees of $12,000 once per year in December, which can be a huge plus (applies to Tier III as well). NYPD retirement can be very lucrative if you move up, but the biggest benefit to increase the pension is not available to Tier III, and that in my opinion is huge (ITHP and Additional 50%). Fed will give you a much more comfortable lifestyle, whereas the NYPD lifestyle can go either way depending on your career trajectory. I believe Fed pensions are also exempt from NYS tax.

              Most feds will tell you the benefits are much better on the local side, but it's not a massive difference. Again, I'm speaking from a Tier II perspective. In any case, pension alone won't do it where ever you end up retiring from. You need to be smart and plan accordingly throughout your career. TSP, Def. Comp, etc. is critical. As GoldBadge alluded to, the goal is to net the same or more than you made while working. This can be done @ NYPD or on the fed side but both will require proper planning to do so.
              sigpic
              __________________

              "I pity guys like you, I truly do. Everything you own and have you can thank the job for and still you despise it. I don't understand how any man can choose a career, hate it from the beginning, not have the balls to leave, and then complain about it once he's retired."

              -Thee Rant (surprisingly)
              __________________

              Originally posted by NYCTNT
              DF,

              Why do you bother?

              Comment


              • #8
                Fed pensions and Social Security supplements are exempt from NYS income tax.
                I’ll die with blue in my veins.

                Comment


                • #9
                  There are a lot of questions to be answered before deciding just based on pension comparsions

                  Can you buy back into tier 2. If you have enough miltary and other NYS pensionable prior job time/peace officer time, you can get into tier 2. I know a guy who did nyc ems for over ten years before going to the nypd. He is able to buy back into tier 2.

                  how old would you be when you get the time in. A tier 2 can retire in 20 years . A tier 3 can retire in 22.5 years and 25 years if he wants the escalation benefit. If you are 21, the few years of retirement might be worth it to you instead of waiting to 50. Not always recommended but possible. And possibly start a second career.

                  How many years do you plan working at that department: a tier 2 definitely has a higher pension if they work 25 than a fed with twenty five tears if they are equal rank in their hierarchy. just working those extra years can bring the tier 2 pension over more than 40% of what they would have had a twenty years.

                  Tier 2 and under thirty, the nypd pension is probably better if you can hustle the overtime and stay a little past your 20th year in a low inflation environment. Tier 3 is no question in my mind-- go federal
                  Last edited by crj11472; 01-23-2015, 06:42 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lots of info here. Thanks to all who had input.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Lots of good info here ladies and gents. Another question relating to nypd tier 3..... I know at 25 years it's 50% plus te full escalation..... But every years after that do you get anything additional like the 1/60th to increase your pension percentage? Or is it a flat 50% no matter how many more years you do?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by nyc9090 View Post
                        Lots of good info here ladies and gents. Another question relating to nypd tier 3..... I know at 25 years it's 50% plus te full escalation..... But every years after that do you get anything additional like the 1/60th to increase your pension percentage? Or is it a flat 50% no matter how many more years you do?
                        50% no 1/60ths. Google NYCPPF and read the Tier 3 booklet for more info.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks for the quick answer! I actually read through it but must have skipped that lol

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by EnWhyPeeDee View Post
                            You're better off working for a PD in Long Island, Westchester or Rockland where a PO makes 160K a year without killing themselves.
                            The problem is that getting on one of those pd's is even harder than getting a fed job.
                            Exam 70XX
                            4Q

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Just to reiterate I am trying to compare tier 3 (not tier 2) to an 1811 pension. Thank you all for the great info!
                              Exam 70XX
                              4Q

                              Comment

                              MR300x250 Tablet

                              Collapse

                              What's Going On

                              Collapse

                              There are currently 6377 users online. 355 members and 6022 guests.

                              Most users ever online was 158,966 at 05:57 AM on 01-16-2021.

                              Welcome Ad

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X