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  • Gang Identifiers

    I currently work in a large hospital in Manhattan (waiting for the July academy class) and on a weekly basis, I see individuals walking the halls or in the ER with clearly defined gang identifiers such as clothing, tattoos, jewlery, etc. How do LEOs ON-DUTY deal with a person who has gang affiliation identifiers, yet isn't committing a crime? If they are on the subway, or walking down the street, do you stop them, keep an eye on them, or let them go on with their business? Now, same question, but when OFF-DUTY. Do you keep a close eye on them, or pretend like they aren't even there?
    City of New York's Finest

  • #2
    I don't understand the point of stopping someone who is just wearing beads. If it's one guy, it's not worth the stop or agrivation.

    Patrol cops do not deal with gangs on a regular level. Once you get on the job, confer with the gang division once you have a couple of years on the job.

    Gangs are a specialty handled by specialists, or by the precinct anti crime units.
    Last edited by NYCTNT; 06-04-2014, 07:32 AM.
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    • #3
      If they're not doing anything wrong or if they are not wanted for anything/information, all you can do is watch and wait.
      If a group of them gathers, start herding them somewhere else before something happens.

      If off duty, keep an eye on them. If they gather, move yourself out of there.
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      • #4
        If you have no probable cause, there is no reason to stop them. They are free to wear their clothes however they like, wear whatever tattoos they want, talk however they want etc.

        If you stop them, they can absolutely stay silent and not talk at all or answer a single question and walk away. Even if you did have probable cause, they can still choose to not say anything AT ALL. Oh and they can also record you all they want.

        Off duty or on, a person has the right to not talk to a cop at all and walk away unless he is being detained which usually includes the person breaking a law of somesort. But why would you detain them in the first place if you have no probable cause.



        The days of the NYPD illegally stopping and frisking colored and Spanish individuals (was it 90% of all stops and frisks? wow!) with B.S probable causes are over. That is sooo Bloomberg and Kelly's days.
        Last edited by New-York-Cityian; 06-03-2014, 11:23 PM.
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        • #5
          You don't get stopped for PC, PC is enough for an arrest.
          What you're referring to is reasonable suspicion.
          A person may be stopped if an officer has reasonable suspicion (a step less than probable cause) that the subject has or about to commit a penal law misdemeanor or felony.
          If a person has broken the law as low as a violation, the person has every right to practice the fifth, except for providing valid ID. They can either get a summons in lieu of arrest or go through the process.

          Since you have directed this topic of gangs to sqf:
          Stop question and possibly frisk works . Has it been abused in the past....possibly. Since it has been done less, you see shootings and other violent crime has gone up, especially in the PSAs.
          If you're upset that colored and Spanish individuals are the ones being stopped, wait til you get otj. Impact zones are created in these areas and unfortunately, the people that you mentioned live/frequent here. If you were to stop the only white guy in a predominantly black/Latino neighborhood, I don't know about you but that could be racial profiling.
          Last edited by StarShield; 06-04-2014, 12:03 AM.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by StarShield View Post
            You don't get stopped for PC, PC is enough for an arrest.
            What you're referring to is reasonable suspicion.
            A person may be stopped if an officer has reasonable suspicion (a step less than probable cause) that the subject has or about to commit a penal law misdemeanor or felony.
            If a person has broken the law as low as a violation, the person has every right to practice the fifth, except for providing valid ID. They can either get a summons in lieu of arrest or go through the process.

            Since you have directed this topic of gangs to sqf:
            Stop question and possibly frisk works . Has it been abused in the past....possibly. Since it has been done less, you see shootings and other violent crime has gone up, especially in the PSAs.
            If you're upset that colored and Spanish individuals are the ones being stopped, wait til you get otj. Impact zones are created in these areas and unfortunately, the people that you mentioned live/frequent here. If you were to stop the only white guy in a predominantly black/Latino neighborhood, I don't know about you but that could be racial profiling.
            Yes I got them mixed up. Reasonable suspicion is what I meant. I don't know what you meant by the valid ID part, but here in NY at least, you do NOT have to give them a valid ID card, only name and address. Other than that what you said is absolutely correct.
            Last edited by New-York-Cityian; 06-04-2014, 12:13 AM.
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            • #7
              So what if the guy who broke the law gave your name and your address to me, doesn't answer the summons and now you're left with a warrant for your arrest?

              I assume you're currently not in law enforcement. Do not spread false information (especially if you're not knowledgable in it such as reasonable suspicion vs probable cause example). It makes my job harder and yours too if you ever get on. If I can't find the identity if the violator, they end up in handcuffs and come with me.
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              • #8
                I think you should relook the stop and identify statues. Jesus Christ do they not teach you this stuff in the Academy? Or were you sleeping? We do not need dumber cops. Let's recap.

                1. They can record you.
                2. They don't have to answer anything and can walk away.
                3. If they want your name and badge number, you give them it.
                4. For the sake of everyone no you do not need ID Card but you could simply state your name and adress

                You do NOT need to give ID final time I'm saying it. Ignorant people like you make everybody's job harder. Why put someone through the system when they didnt follow your order which their not suppose to? The judge and lawyer will laugh at your face.

                No Leo experience? Why the **** does that matter? At least I take paralegal and criminal justice classes (moving onto a phd) where they teach you the system better than an ignorant cop would "experiance"

                Again, do a quick search for NY stop and identify statues and stop embarrassing yourself. Are you a cop? Cops like you are a disgrace for everyone. No wonder our prisons are overcrowded.
                Last edited by New-York-Cityian; 06-04-2014, 01:19 AM.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by New-York-Cityian View Post
                  I think you should relook the stop and identify statues. Jesus Christ do they not teach you this stuff in the Academy? We do not need dumber cops. Let's recap.

                  1. They can record you.
                  2. They don't have to answer anything and can walk away.
                  3. If they want your name and badge number, you give them it.
                  4. For the sake of everyone no you do not need ID Card but you could simply state your name and adress

                  You do NOT need to give ID final time I'm saying it. Ignorant people like you make everybody's job harder. Why put someone through the system when they didnt follow your order which their not suppose to? The judge and lawyer will laugh at your face.

                  No Leo experience? Why the **** does that matter? At least I take paralegal and criminal justice classes (moving onto a phd) where they teach you the system better than an ignorant cop would "experiance"

                  Again, do a quick search for NY stop and identify statues and stop embarrassing yourself. Are you a cop? Cops like you are a disgrace for everyone. No wonder our prisons are overcrowded.
                  You obviously need better reading comprehension. My last 2 post about valid ID were about people who broke the law, violations, Misd, and felonies. Probable cause.....arrest or summons in lieu of it.
                  You need to ID yourself.

                  I did not mention anything about ID during a stop question and possibly frisk encounter. You're obviously very sensitive to it. Just to let you know, "they cannot walk away" if the officer conducted the stop has reasonable suspicion. They are being detained.
                  I really hope those classes mom and dad paid for teach you how to read and communicate better let alone educate you on all this legal stuff. If you can't take any constructive criticism and resort to name calling, you're going to have a long road ahead of you as a cop, a cop I wouldn't want as my partner.

                  Also, I think you meant statuTes. Stop and identity statues....that's embarrassing.
                  Last edited by StarShield; 06-04-2014, 01:44 AM.
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                  • #10
                    Huh? Mom and dad have been long dead now. My six figure degree is supported out of my pocket.

                    zZzZzZ yeah OK buddy you win whatever. Are you happy now?

                    Tell me what you gained out of this intellectual conversation.
                    Last edited by New-York-Cityian; 06-04-2014, 01:36 AM.
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                    • #11
                      Owning you, that's the kick I got out of it.
                      Stop practicing paralegal via daily news and studying criminal justice via nypost.
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                      • #12
                        Yeah you totally "owned" me. You're right I'm wrong. OK ill stop "practicing paralegal via daily news and studying criminal justice via nypost." whatever makes you happy. Sheesh.
                        NYPD Exam 4324
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lbaust260 View Post
                          I currently work in a large hospital in Manhattan (waiting for the July academy class) and on a weekly basis, I see individuals walking the halls or in the ER with clearly defined gang identifiers such as clothing, tattoos, jewlery, etc. How do LEOs ON-DUTY deal with a person who has gang affiliation identifiers, yet isn't committing a crime? If they are on the subway, or walking down the street, do you stop them, keep an eye on them, or let them go on with their business? Now, same question, but when OFF-DUTY. Do you keep a close eye on them, or pretend like they aren't even there?
                          Unless they are actively doing something illegal, or unless I can articulate a reasonable suspicion that they are about to commit a crime- I would do nothing more than acknowledge their presence as I would any other person.

                          Under different circumstances, say if we were working a case where members of a given gang were involved, I would stop and chat them up but unless I had reasonable suspicion or developed probable cause, they would be free to keep on trucking.

                          Regardless, if you see a trend, pattern or something of concern- jot it down and pass it onto the Gang/Intelligence unit.
                          Originally posted by SSD
                          It has long been the tradition on this forum and as well as professionally not to second guess or Monday morning QB the officer's who were actually on-scene and had to make the decision. That being said, I don't think that your discussion will go very far on this board.
                          Originally posted by Iowa #1603
                          And now you are arguing about not arguing..................

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                          • #14
                            If a person is detained for a violation of the law, as StarShield, the detainee must provide a verifiable ID. If the detainee is arrested and fails to provide ID, ie, refuses to be printed, he cannot be released by the court.

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                            • #15
                              I didn't want to say all of this but...

                              One alleged gang member is not enough for a stop. If a few of them are making a small crowd, it's an arrest.

                              This is for known gang member identifiers. A regular guy wearing beads is not enough.

                              So, yes, we still stop the group of Latin kings wearing yellow at the p.r. Parade and the trinitarios during the Dominican parade. In full force.

                              We recover several guns during these parades at any given time.

                              So yes, you can be arrested solely on gang affiliation without doing anything criminal if it's more than one.
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