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  • Originally posted by TheGreatBambino View Post
    Small mistakes?

    You literally described the worst candidate.
    He pretty much painted the negative picture him self.
    Problems with a psych exam?
    Have an upcoming
    PSYCHOLOGICAL EXAM that you NEED to PREPARE for?


    If your Disqualified, Pressured too withdraw, Recieved a Proposed DQ or want to talk about the appeal process- check these guys out. Doesnt hurt too call them- free, detailed telepone consultation before
    you make up your mind.
    WWW.LAWENFORCEMENTPEPTALK.COM



    Attorney Rob Kronenberg WWW.RKRONENBERGLAW.COM

    Appeal Psychologist: Mark Lerner
    http://www.crisisdoctors.com/Site/Dr._Mark_Lerner.html

    Comment


    • Hey everyone. I did some reading on this forum before posting this, but couldn’t find a definitive answer especially since every persons case is unique in a way.

      i took my oral psych in June 2017. She requested some documents the day off which I got for her immediately. I missed the July academy as a result of not being fully cleared yet. Last month (September) she requested even more documents, basic medical records, which I sent to her immediately. I have a very clean background and solid work history. At this point I am cleared on everything besides psych.

      A few weeks ago my psychologist emailed me saying a preliminary recommendation has been made but it’s up to another department psychologist to review my case before a final decision can be entered into their applicant tracking system. I’m curious as to where you think I stand right now?

      Im definitely staying hopeful, but if I can get some input from you more experienced guys on this topic I’d very much appreciate it.
      Last edited by rb1152013; 10-05-2017, 05:10 PM.

      Comment


      • CPA OR COP
        CPA OR COP commented
        Editing a comment
        You probably on supervisor review.

      • rb1152013
        rb1152013 commented
        Editing a comment
        I think we can agree any kind of review is not ideal. But would you mind explaining how supervisor review might be different from a different kind of review? My psychologist is a supervising psychologist for nypd so that probably explains that

      • fd3030
        fd3030 commented
        Editing a comment
        Don't quote me, but I think supervisor review is when your primary psychologist makes a decision on your case and doesn't clear you, then it goes to their boss for a second opinion. Again, not 100 percent sure, but that's what I understood from reading everything.

      • rb1152013
        rb1152013 commented
        Editing a comment
        How exactly might that be different than your typical review? I figured they always get second opinions

    • Hey guys, I got the psych preposed dq letter in the mail.

      1)I have a few quest​​​​​​ions: no where in the letter does it say why I was disqualified, and they say for me to submit more documentation for me to prove I am fit for the position. How can I submit stuff if I don't know why I'm dq in the first place. So how do I know the reason.

      2)​​​​​​ there is also a withdrawal form. If I withdraw, would that limit my ability for other law enforcement in the area? If I withdraw and take the new york state police, or NYC corrections, or FDNY exam... Will they see I withdrew or will they see my whole nypd file

      3) ​​​​​​I really don't have the thousands right now for a lawyer/psych. So what is the best possible way I can appeal it (if I don't withdraw as #3) alone? Can I go to a psychologists from my health insurance, and have him evaluate me and submit that documentation? Does it have to be a forensic psychologist, therapist, counselor, who?

      4)​​​​​​ it says I must submit all this documentation in only 30 days, does that mean I need to submit everything for reconsideration by 30 days? . I don't think that's enough time for me... Can I extend it?
      Last edited by hwguy1314; 10-06-2017, 01:27 PM.

      Comment


      • fd3030
        fd3030 commented
        Editing a comment
        Go through this thread and read everything. You'll get more information in this thread than anyone else.

      • Vista
        Vista commented
        Editing a comment
        Shoot me an EMail [email protected]

        MATT

      • Vista
        Vista commented
        Editing a comment
        1) The only one who can ever see a detailed report is a Independant psychologist. I reccomend Mark Lerner in Melville, NY. You will never see the reason unless you hire a psych and they show you / go over it with you.

        2) You will always have to disclose to any agency that you withdrew, and you will be asked why. They will most likely request and see your file held by NYPD. It will always be there, collecting dust in a cabinet. NYSP Tends to place less stress on NYPD Decisions, but DOC and FD will jump on it. Either way, it can only hurt you. Nassau and Suffolk have also been known to hammer candidates with prior DQ’s. An uncontested DQ will haunt you- especially since without initiating an appeal you wont know what it says, so you will not know how to mitigate the resulting damage in the future. Many times these things are based on contextual inaccuracies resulting from miscommunication, etc. (Sometimes the DQ’s are Valid- Junky, bipolar scitzo, etc)

        3) You need at minimum, a Psychologist. One thats experienced in NYPD DQ’s. Most psychologists have never seen an NYPD report, and have never been to a civil service hearing. Pick someone who is experienced and knows how the department psychologists approach these things.

        No, insurance will NOT cover it. It’s not a quick 1-2-3 Letter saying “hwguy1314 is okay!!”.... its a detailed evaluation, a lengthy review of all the files.... another eval after they reciew
        Your file and a long (like 25-35 page report) summing up why they believe the dept is wrong, etc. its probably a good 5-7 hours of work.

        4) You have thirty days (from the date on the letter, or post mark- check the verbage) to notify them of your appeal, and designate an appeal psychologist. It takes them a while to get your papers together and send the file direct to your independent psychologost. Then you guus get another 30 says from the day they recieve it to submit a report back to them. No, the NYPD is unlikely to give you an extension. Realistically, you have 2-3 months.

        Again, [email protected]

        I’ll answer whatever i can.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLlAf...EMQFD5FKLVWEvl
        Last edited by Vista; 10-07-2017, 05:23 PM.

    • Is it uncommon for a preliminary decision to lead to you being cleared by the person who makes the final decision? Haven’t seen anyone post about that here

      Comment


      • Vista
        Vista commented
        Editing a comment
        All decisions go through supervisors. Negative decisions get more scrutiny.

      • rb1152013
        rb1152013 commented
        Editing a comment
        Vista Of course. would you happen to know how supervisory review is different from the more common 1R/2R types of review?

    • Oral Pysch question here. I took my written test back in March 2017. I have done everything, except the oral Psych. Does anyone know why it takes so long for some people and not others? I've done the JST and Mini medical multiple times. I call APD, and I always get non answers. I've met people at Mini-med that get their oral within 2 weeks of the written.

      Comment


      • rb1152013
        rb1152013 commented
        Editing a comment
        It’s because there are many people from exams much older than yours whom are still going through the process. I took my written in 2014. They haven’t even gone passed exam 5339 yet I believe

      • thebigsnapple
        thebigsnapple commented
        Editing a comment
        In the same spot as you man. Just gotta wait is what I am being told.

      • Mapkid81
        Mapkid81 commented
        Editing a comment
        Exam 5326, I'm also waiting for the oral and the mini, I passed everything else. Got a home visit by two investigators and according to my neighbors they gave a good reference. Has anyone had a home visit by investigators? Does this mean I'm in the clear for hire?

    • I know everything is pretty much a waiting game but in terms of being or review, does a applicants exam number/year factor into when a determination is made? If one applicant is from a 2014 test and another is from a 2015 test and they're both on review will they try to handle the 2014 applicant first?

      Comment


    • If you are fighting a psychological DQ and you have a civil service commission hearing , should you disclose it to another department if you are processing for them? Like NYS trooper or Department of Corrections? Would their psychologist look down on you for being DQ from another agency?
      Exams Taken:
      NYPD, NYPDSSA ,NYPDTEA NYCDEP, NYCDOC ,NYCDOS Enforcement, PAPD ,NYSDOC, NYPD dispatcher, NCPD, NYS Trooper, NYS University Police (downstate/upstate), Monroe County PD, Chenango Sheriff, Rochester PD, YPD ,OC Sheriff.

      In Process:
      NYPDPC Exam 2214
      APD5- Complete
      Medical- Complete

      JST- 11/20/2013
      Oral/Psyc- 11/27/2013
      Mini Med - ?

      Comment


      • Vista
        Vista commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes. You must always disclose it. Ambiguity will never be resolved in your favor. Omission of pertinent fact is a instant Dq.

    • Originally posted by PuertoRican_COP View Post
      If you are fighting a psychological DQ and you have a civil service commission hearing , should you disclose it to another department if you are processing for them? Like NYS trooper or Department of Corrections? Would their psychologist look down on you for being DQ from another agency?
      They ask. Regardless of if you want to disclose it or not you will probably be asked if you have taken any other civil service exams. You will also be asked if you have taken a oral psych or met with any psych for employment or any other reason.. Lets say you did receive a dq on a psych for another agency you should still feel inclined to take other exams and process with them regardless of if they are NYC/STATE/ETC ETC.

      Comment


      • Vista
        Vista commented
        Editing a comment
        It has been explicitly asked in every workbook for every agency I have filled out.

      • thebigsnapple
        thebigsnapple commented
        Editing a comment
        You might know this so I figured I would ask. If you get a prop dq'd or the regular dq from another agency and decide to apply around...how does the new agency get your records? Is this something the applicant will have to let them have access too. What about reviews? although its not a DQ or even a proposed one how do you disclose this? Anyways I have seen an overwhelming amount of people who went on to be hired by another agency, which makes sense because most DQ'S are literally just for that agency and say so on the notice if I am correct.

    • WHAT TO DISCLOSE

      When you ask “Do I have to disclose bla bla bla”, or should I disclose blah blah blah- just remember if you don’t and they find it, your done. They will take it as willful deception and omission of pertinent fact. When you apply for law enforcement jobs, ambiguity will never be resolved in your favor. If they knock you out for lieing, your dead in the water. No appeal, lawyer or whatever is gonna get them to change their mind and it will be very very hard to convince any agency like civil service that it was an accident.

      In all the advice I have given, I have always said never lie. Once your suspected of lieing, your done- it’s better to candidly disclose something and explain it later on then for them to discover your omission and have to explain why you didn’t put it down and then explain the issue. In my case where my Psych DQ by NYPD was rescinded, when i went through the background for Nassau I told the Investigator “Hey I was DQ... but it was rescinded’. He asked what I meant (Had to clarify the difference between rescinded and winning at hearing) I told him it was essentially voided, nullified. He replied ”Well okay, then it’s a moot issue- don’t put it in the book”. He also wrote down that I told him and told me to document it just for the file in case it came up. Could I have not told him? Sure, and I probably could have explained why ex post factor, but it was better for me to “Shoot it straight” with him.

      Don’t lie. No creative wording. No leaving something out. Assume you will get caught- if the lie is big enough, they can even can you after your hired. I believe they have two years zero questions. Few years back the NYPD moved to void the employment of a disgraced retired inspector for deception and omissions on his app years before (COREY PEGUES). Not sure how far they got with that because that was unprecedented.


      ​​​​NOW AS FAR AS BEING ON REVIEW

      The only thing to do is wait, and provide them what they ask for. Touch base occasionally with your investigator. It does not matter if it’s 1R, 2R, Supervisory review- until they get to your file and get it done, you wait. And the wait can be a long time- many many months. Do not call psych services repeatedly- they can and will not discuss your case other than what you aleady know- that your on review. Your Investigator will know why your on Investigative review, and may or may not tell you but they will not tell you why your on psych review (Even if they do know). No one will be able to give you timeframes. Some people have “Died on the list” meaning the List expired before they were gotten too. It happens rarely. DO NOT CALL PSYCH SERVICES UNLESS THEY NEED SOMETHING FROM YOU.

      APPEALING A DQ

      ONCE A DECISION IS MADE AND YOU RECIEVE A PROPOSED DQ- AND NOT BEFORE,
      you can begin the appeals process if you file it in a timely fashion as explained in the letter. For a psych DQ you will need to retain an independent psychologist (optionally but highly recommended, a lawyer). They will interview you, review your file and if possible write a supporting, dissenting report to NYPD. The NYPD has the opportunity to review and issue their final determination (Typically uphold their decision). From there, it goes to civil service (who are pretty reasonable people). They will either affirm the decision, reverse the Dept decision or schedule a hearing where you and your attorney and psych hash it out with the Dept in front of them before they decide. This again is a lengthy process. It’s not quick.

      Process is similiar for for a med dq.

      If it’s a character dq, you do not see your file- you have to fly it blind with a lawyer in responding.

      If you withdraw you will still end up disclosing why you withdrew to other agencies and be asked why. They may still see your file and you will never have the opportunity to see what was written or be able to correct any inaccuracies. This can only hurt you down the line in other applications- but not definitely an AUTO DQ.

      If your faced with the decision of whether to appeal or not- you need to make an informed educated opinion. It’s not a cheap process nor a fast process, however they are in many cases successful (in many cases people are merely unfit for the job and don’t want to believe it). An appeal is not a guaranteed slam dunk.

      MY ADVICE

      ​​​Have your stuff together, know your history- long before you start the process do a background on your self. Schools, employers, etc- ask for all records so you can candidly disclose stuff- and know how to explain it clearly. Refresh your memory so you know what they will be reading.

      As as far as the psych- Like, when you were 10 and your pet turtle died and you were upset for a week- that’s not depression. Most people don’t know what depression is and unwittingly answer yes. It’s crap like that that people often jam themselves up on. Stuff incorrectly or incompletely explained, stuff that was construed In a contextually inaccurate manner. That’s why I recommend the law enforcement pep talk. It’s not about lieing, it’s about properly conveying circumstances surrounding the situations that may come up so the interviewer has the correct information available to make there decision. It’s about not having to spend hours hashing it out at hearings where if the candidate had just explained it clearly with enough detail, an appeal would not have been necessary. More info is in my signature

      In my experience and research, and upon personal recommendtions I used Rob Kronenberg and Mark Lerner. I have no complaints, they are very experienced with these matters. They were also fair with there prices.

      There are a few others- guys who were interim directors of psych services many years ago... guys who practice law and psych, but in my experience they were more concerned with discussing costs and pushing for an appointment than with explaining the process and what they would do. Mr. Kronenberg explained in detail- in a telephone conversation, everything before even discussing cost or moving forward. I’d recommend calling him if you get a NOPD and hearing him out. There contact info is in my signature

      ITS LITERALLY YOUR JOB TO PROOVE THAT YOUR FIT AND QUALIFIED FOR THE JOB.
      Last edited by Vista; 10-19-2017, 09:25 AM.
      Problems with a psych exam?
      Have an upcoming
      PSYCHOLOGICAL EXAM that you NEED to PREPARE for?


      If your Disqualified, Pressured too withdraw, Recieved a Proposed DQ or want to talk about the appeal process- check these guys out. Doesnt hurt too call them- free, detailed telepone consultation before
      you make up your mind.
      WWW.LAWENFORCEMENTPEPTALK.COM



      Attorney Rob Kronenberg WWW.RKRONENBERGLAW.COM

      Appeal Psychologist: Mark Lerner
      http://www.crisisdoctors.com/Site/Dr._Mark_Lerner.html

      Comment


      • rb1152013
        rb1152013 commented
        Editing a comment
        Thank you for the information. Some of it could come in handy for myself.

    • I took anxiety meds for public speaking, 3 times, 2 years ago in 2015. My records state I have "social anxiety" which I don't, but since that's what the doctor put, and they saw, then whatever. If I had social anxeity I wouldn't own a restaurant in Manhattan. I did the psych and I was pre-dq for it...so then I withdrew my application.

      Should I take another nypd exam? ​By the time I'm called, it would be like 5 years or 4.5 years since I took those meds... Is that a good enough time frame to restart my application?
      Last edited by hwguy1314; 10-22-2017, 02:58 AM.

      Comment


      • Vista
        Vista commented
        Editing a comment
        How do you know this is the specific / only reason if you didn’t appeal?

    • I am on review, my BI refereed me to the Psychologist. She advised she cannot tell me where I am in the process as of yet. What does that mean exacly. Last time she said I'd here from her in 30 days. I didn't, last week I reached out she advised she could not tell me where I was in the process. Does this mean a total DQ?

      Comment


      • Vista
        Vista commented
        Editing a comment
        All’s it means is that no final decision has been made, and you wait. No amount of calling is going to get you squared up- leave psych services alone.

    • I know this is mostly NYPD, but has anyone ever filed an appeal for PAPD psych? I had one psych interview and was DQ'd. Is it worth contacting Kronenberg?

      Comment


      • Vista
        Vista commented
        Editing a comment
        It’s a free consult so it’s no loss to you. And I do believe he has had some success with these. I believe there is an appeal process but not an internal one like civil service- it’s actually a Article 78 if I’m not mistaken. Did the letter give you the chance to submit documentation from an outside psych? PAPD- pretty political agency, pretty selective. Nepotism runs strong there. Tell him I said hello.

      • PA_116
        PA_116 commented
        Editing a comment
        Vista the letter just said the medical services team cannot approve me any further in the process. I can write to a person to receive further determination about my termination, but I'm sure it's just a generic letter back.

      • rb1152013
        rb1152013 commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes, it’s a generic copy + paste letter. If you call Paulette you’ll get to hear how rude she is on the phone and she won’t answer anything.

      • PA_116
        PA_116 commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes the letter says to contact Paulette Counts

    • Vista mostly because I know I have a Clean record. It's probably only the social anxiety pills, which I don't know why the hell my doctor wrote that anyway since I don't have that.

      I never did marijuana, al​​never drank alcohol, never got suspended, fired, never got a moving ticket, or anything.

      Comment


      • Vista
        Vista commented
        Editing a comment
        Its safe to assume nothing with the psych.

    • deleted...figured it out.
      Last edited by thebigsnapple; 11-19-2017, 05:54 PM.

      Comment


      • Its been more then a year that i had been on psych review. What should i do?

        Comment


        • yaga115
          yaga115 commented
          Editing a comment
          what were you on review for?

        • rb1152013
          rb1152013 commented
          Editing a comment
          you haven't received a proposed DQ letter after a year? Have you even heard from the psych department?

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