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  • nyc7011
    replied
    level

    I am a pretty fair guy out there and I try to be as diplomatic as possible, sometimes it doesn't work and it goes to the next level but if you do what you have to do in a firm, fair, and professional manner, I've found that even the people I have locked up wind up respecting me (and sometimes thanking me) by the end of the night. Some things out here need a zero tolerance approach. Disorderly persons on a police scene are one of them. You'd be surprised how many people pay attention to what goes on out here (or in this case film).
    Last edited by nyc7011; 09-03-2011, 03:10 AM.

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  • LINY
    replied
    Originally posted by nyc7011 View Post
    I just watched the video, those are Patrol Borough Brooklyn North cops and that arrest, without knowing the full facts and circumstances, appears to be legitimate based solely on the video. I'm willing to bet the violation the Impact SGT was going to issue him a summons for was Disorderly Conduct. Yes, it sounded like he was just joking around, and yes to someone in Texas, it may seem harmless, but in Brooklyn, NY, this type of conduct on a police scene quickly draws the attention of others and creates a chaotic situation. I can't hear what the SGT initially said to the bystander, but I did hear him say to "mind your own business" and I'm guessing that he had already told him to move along prior to that. Now, why was this person actually arrested and not issued a summons? Well, the Impact SGT repeatedly requested ID from the person who was evasive and uncooperative. At that point, the person can be arrested rather than summonsed for the Disorderly Conduct offense. In fact, upon learning he was going to receive a citation, the individual actually became more rowdy and created more of a scene. I work in an Impact zone, and these Zones lay in some of the worst neighborhoods in America. Even slight disruptions or interference by the public in these areas can't be tolerated because when they are, they send a message to a group of people that already hate the police that we can be bullied and prodded, this emboldens the criminal element and it creates a dangerous environment for us who are out there on foot dealing with that same criminal element every day.
    You should be a Dept spokesperson, lol.

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  • TruGuardian
    replied
    NYC7011, u presented a Valid & Thorough explanation...I think even a Civilian can appreciate that explanation. Good Job/Contribution.

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  • AC1074
    replied
    Alright, thanks for the input guys. Much appreciated.

    Leave a comment:


  • nyc7011
    replied
    True, I try not to when it can be avoided though. I think the SGT was trying to avoid that too. Most people don't understand that from the video. He was just going to write a C. Instead the guy got crazy and was combative about his ID. The guy did it to himself.

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  • wpaterno
    replied
    Not a bad comment, but i just want to let you know that u can put someone under for a violation even if they have an id.

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  • nyc7011
    replied
    Originally posted by Adam12 View Post
    That's exactly what I am referring to. Do you agree or disagree with the decision to arrest? The comments posted about the video are nothing but bad of course. However, as I approach year 15 on the job I like to think I have the right perspective or am I an "old head" needing to change the way we police?
    I just watched the video, those are Patrol Borough Brooklyn North cops and that arrest, without knowing the full facts and circumstances, appears to be legitimate based solely on the video. I'm willing to bet the violation the Impact SGT was going to issue him a summons for was Disorderly Conduct. Yes, it sounded like he was just joking around, and yes to someone in Texas, it may seem harmless, but in Brooklyn, NY, this type of conduct on a police scene quickly draws the attention of others and creates a chaotic situation. I can't hear what the SGT initially said to the bystander, but I did hear him say to "mind your own business" and I'm guessing that he had already told him to move along prior to that. Now, why was this person actually arrested and not issued a summons? Well, the Impact SGT repeatedly requested ID from the person who was evasive and uncooperative. At that point, the person can be arrested rather than summonsed for the Disorderly Conduct offense. In fact, upon learning he was going to receive a citation, the individual actually became more rowdy and created more of a scene. I work in an Impact zone, and these Zones lay in some of the worst neighborhoods in America. Even slight disruptions or interference by the public in these areas can't be tolerated because when they are, they send a message to a group of people that already hate the police that we can be bullied and prodded, this emboldens the criminal element and it creates a dangerous environment for us who are out there on foot dealing with that same criminal element every day.

    Leave a comment:


  • AC1074
    replied
    Originally posted by Roninjin View Post
    That's exactly what I am referring to. Do you agree or disagree with the decision to arrest? The comments posted about the video are nothing but bad of course. However, as I approach year 15 on the job I like to think I have the right perspective or am I an "old head" needing to change the way we police?

    Leave a comment:


  • Roninjin
    replied
    Originally posted by Adam12 View Post
    Thank you guys.

    Scenario:

    Police has a person stopped for a traffic violation. While conducting the investigation/issuing summons another person walks up on scene and begins talking to the person that was stopped. Police ask the person who walked up for his ID and the person becomes uncooperative. The person then refuses to give his ID and is arrested.

    The debate at hand is of course the police are being accused of "abusing their powers" and had no reason to ask for the guy's ID who walked on scene. I was trying to explain this to a non law enforcement officer.

    My personal opinion was of course number one is an officer safety issue when people just approach your stop/scene and start talking. We have no idea who he is or what his intentions are. The point being argued is the person I was talking to thinks police did not have the right to ask for his ID and made a unlawful arrest. I say he is wrong because in Tx we have the intereference with public duties law which gave police the right to ask for ID which led to the person refusing to give his ID and was arrested. The incident happened in New York City. Thanks for any input
    I just found your scenario

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxjNV...layer_embedded

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  • options open
    replied
    discon, oga, resisting.....with our DA's it's one big DP anyway, doesn't really matter what goes on the olbs.

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  • NYCTNT
    replied
    Originally posted by Adam12 View Post
    Thank you guys.

    Scenario:

    Police has a person stopped for a traffic violation. While conducting the investigation/issuing summons another person walks up on scene and begins talking to the person that was stopped. Police ask the person who walked up for his ID and the person becomes uncooperative. The person then refuses to give his ID and is arrested.

    The debate at hand is of course the police are being accused of "abusing their powers" and had no reason to ask for the guy's ID who walked on scene. I was trying to explain this to a non law enforcement officer.

    My personal opinion was of course number one is an officer safety issue when people just approach your stop/scene and start talking. We have no idea who he is or what his intentions are. The point being argued is the person I was talking to thinks police did not have the right to ask for his ID and made a unlawful arrest. I say he is wrong because in Tx we have the intereference with public duties law which gave police the right to ask for ID which led to the person refusing to give his ID and was arrested. The incident happened in New York City. Thanks for any input

    The only way or reason legally, I would or can ask them for ID is if I told them to leave the area due to police activity with the person stopped and they refused my lawful order.

    Then they would be arrested for Obstructing.

    I dont want to be a case law in NY for doing that. That sounds a bit unlawful and difficult to legally articulate why you locked him up.

    Leave a comment:


  • AC1074
    replied
    Thank you guys.

    Scenario:

    Police has a person stopped for a traffic violation. While conducting the investigation/issuing summons another person walks up on scene and begins talking to the person that was stopped. Police ask the person who walked up for his ID and the person becomes uncooperative. The person then refuses to give his ID and is arrested.

    The debate at hand is of course the police are being accused of "abusing their powers" and had no reason to ask for the guy's ID who walked on scene. I was trying to explain this to a non law enforcement officer.

    My personal opinion was of course number one is an officer safety issue when people just approach your stop/scene and start talking. We have no idea who he is or what his intentions are. The point being argued is the person I was talking to thinks police did not have the right to ask for his ID and made a unlawful arrest. I say he is wrong because in Tx we have the intereference with public duties law which gave police the right to ask for ID which led to the person refusing to give his ID and was arrested. The incident happened in New York City. Thanks for any input
    Last edited by AC1074; 05-10-2011, 03:30 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • NycNick98
    replied
    ^what he said. The exact two that came to mind.

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  • bxhousing
    replied
    no exact fit, but...

    The first one is similar to our OGA....

    § 195.05 Obstructing governmental administration in the second degree.
    A person is guilty of obstructing governmental administration when he
    intentionally obstructs, impairs or perverts the administration of law
    or other governmental function or prevents or attempts to prevent a
    public servant from performing an official function, by means of
    intimidation, physical force or interference, or by means of any
    independently unlawful act, or by means of interfering, whether or not
    physical force is involved, with radio, telephone, television or other
    telecommunications systems owned or operated by the state, or a county,
    city, town, village, fire district or emergency medical service or by
    means of releasing a dangerous animal under circumstances evincing the
    actor`s intent that the animal obstruct governmental administration.

    Obstructing governmental administration is a class A misdemeanor.

    There are some more specific sections that have to do with say firefighting operations, or by the manner in which one interferes, such as through the use of types of force, but this is a general one.

    The second one is similar to our False personation...

    § 190.23 False personation.

    A person is guilty of false personation when after being informed of
    the consequences of such act, he or she knowingly misrepresents his or
    her actual name, date of birth or address to a police officer or peace
    officer with intent to prevent such police officer or peace officer from
    ascertaining such information.

    False personation is a class B misdemeanor.

    Again, there are more specific laws that apply depending on why you lied, what benefit you derived from giving such false info, who you pretended to be, etc.

    It's easier to be given a situation and tell you what laws were violated than it is to "translate" laws from one state to another. Good luck.

    Leave a comment:


  • Buffaloboy
    replied
    Maybe this will help http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article120.htm

    Leave a comment:

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