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  • Officers in upstate jd's are CSEA....Downstate is a COA,SCOA,COBANC, and the suffolk county union (don't know name) CSEA usually sets the pattern though. OCA having no money is complete bull****! Some of the other members here can better explain how OCA plays with vacant lines. Soon2retire or Dinosaur32 OTA??
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    NEVER FORGETTING OUR HERO'S

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    • Of course it's nonsense what OCA is spewing. Anyone who has worked for the state knows the game. That's how they always start the negotiations.

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      • If OCA has lines for 150 officers in a command, they are funded for the budget year. If 30 officers leave during the year OCA gets to keep the balance of the funds budgeted for those positions. OCA then gets to play with all the money for the rest of the budget year. A number of occurrences took place over the course of this budget year that have not happened in the past. The personnel shortage in the courtrooms is reaching a level that will become untenable in the metropolitan area. As much as OCA would like not to hire officers and clerks, I'm not sure how much longer they can sustain full operations without doing so.

        A quick illustration: OCA moved three judges to the Bronx to alleviate the felony case backlog. Problem is, there's not enough staff to man their courtrooms. So OCA has three Bronx judges sitting in chambers. This way OCA can point to the hard work of their "judicial swat team".

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        • To reiterate what your saying. The same thing just happened with the Las Vegas PD and Mesa Arizona PD. They continued to stall on hiring, and the situation became as you said "untenable". Now they are rushing through academy classes. It will be just a matter of time, hopefully sooner than later, before OCA wkes up.

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          • Thanks Dinosaur... OCA seems to play with all vacant yet funded lines. I'm not sure how much longer we can go being this short staffed. Its not doing more with less, it has become "Do more with nothing" As a side note OCA has directed that every officer wear their vest not only on posts but in all parts as well. I Wonder what will happen if an officer gets hurt and is not wearing their vest...will they deny Lodi? Looks like OCA is CYA
            Last edited by unblindeacon; 03-19-2013, 11:59 AM.
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            NEVER FORGETTING OUR HERO'S

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            • Thanks Dinosaur... OCA seems to play with all vacant yet funded lines. I'm not sure how much longer we can go being this short staffed. Its not doing more with less, it has become "Do more with nothing" As a side note OCA has directed that every officer wear their vest not only on posts but in all parts as well. I Wonder what will happen if an officer gets hurt and is not wearing their vest...will they deny Lodi? Looks like OCA is CYA
              That was exactly the first thing I thought when I saw the change to the R&P. It is covering its @$$ in regards to LODI.
              Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

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              • Maybe this is a dumb question but what is "LODI"?

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                • So wearing our vests as opposed to it sitting in our lockers is a bad thing? I don't disagree that a lot of the decision making is based on CYA, but to make the wearing of a vest that they purchased for as some sort of a negative is just plain ridiculous. Far too many vests are sitting still in the plastic in officers lockers...Again, ridiculous. Look at Middletown, not every officer had a vest on.....

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                  • So wearing our vests as opposed to it sitting in our lockers is a bad thing? I don't disagree that a lot of the decision making is based on CYA, but to make the wearing of a vest that they purchased for as some sort of a negative is just plain ridiculous. Far too many vests are sitting still in the plastic in officers lockers...Again, ridiculous. Look at Middletown, not every officer had a vest on..... Wear your vests people.....

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                    • Line of duty injury... It happens often when dealing with "court customers" I have always felt officers should be wearing a vest on perimeter, patrol, and any post.... I feel bad for those working in the pens!! What is ridiculous is that OCA will use this as a means to deny Lodi, withhold uniform allowance and who knows what else. Officers are tasked with maintaining the vest...so when I tell them my vest is worn out or the carrier torn what penalty do I have to pay?? I'm not disagreeing with you protector....hey how about the OWS guy who came into 100 centre with a loaded gun? We need to be safe especially considering how badly staffed we are.
                      Last edited by unblindeacon; 03-19-2013, 02:43 PM.
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                      NEVER FORGETTING OUR HERO'S

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                      • I don't remember anyone saying that officers shouldn't wear a vest. I wear mine everyday. If they didn't provide one, I'd buy my own. But anyone familiar with OCA can make the reasonable assumption that the rule wasn't done with the officers' safety at heart but with an eye toward liability as it relates to OCA and LODI.

                        OCA are primarily attorneys first, everything else second. It just so happens that this time, common sense and officer safety happen to coincide with OCA policy. But that doesn't make the close relationship between OCA and common sense normal or usual. They have their angle. They always have an angle.

                        Mark my words, it will be used, sooner or later, to deny someone LODI. And before someone like protector jumps on it, I am not saying whether that is right or wrong. It's a whole other debate in and of itself. But it will be used in that fashion. On a matter of time.
                        Last edited by Professor Moriarty; 03-19-2013, 03:36 PM. Reason: @&&$ing spellcheck
                        Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

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                        • Professor, I am not disagreeing with you but you know full well that the scuttlebutt/complaining in the commands right now is the mandate that we wear vests. We complain when they don't buy us vests, they finally do the right thing and spend millions of dollars on vests and what do we do? Complain....

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                          • I thought the union bought the vests?? Thats what we were told. Only about half the command got new ones. OCA is not our friend. If they wanted to do the right thing they'd hire officers instead of expanding the law dept. or increasing funding for the "indigent"
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                            NEVER FORGETTING OUR HERO'S

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                            • Who said anything about oca being our friend? The UCS just bought millions of dollars worth of vests for officers throughout the state hence the new mandate that we have to wear them. And, the unions never were the sole source of fundimg for whatever vests we did have. There were funds known as QTP money that was part of negotiations. The unions could use that money to purchase equipment for it's members. Downstate, the unions made up of mostly officers elected to purchase vests, CSEA did buy some but we only represent a part of their membership and they did not spend the QTP money so freely. So, Whomever told you the vest you are wearing was completely paid for by the union is wrong.

                              So again, the UCS buys us vests and all we hear are complaints... Friend or not, they bought millions of dollars worth of vests that are now being delivered by the vendor and issued to offcers statewide. That's not a good thing? Sheesh, I don't have to like OCA to at least give them credit for doing something good for us. Would you rather they didn't buy us vests? Would you rather the money spent on vests for officers go to the indigent? I guess they spent millions so that if we get hurt they could deny us LODI benefits? I am quite sure if they can deny benefits they will and they have, no need to buy 4000 men and women vests to do so.
                              Last edited by protector343; 03-19-2013, 06:12 PM.

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                              • If the vests were bought with QTP money then I'm glad to see the unions spending money on gear for the membership instead of car leases, cell phones, etc. I say it's about time OCA does something for us considering the robes had a 13 year slush fund. I don't think myself or the professor are complaining about the mandate.... Officers in NYC (myself included) have been wearing vests for quite some time. My complaint is that I'm working short staffed making conditions more dangerous than necessary. My worry with the vest mandate is that it gives OCA another way to deny LODI which I believe it does. I have Seen them deny 3/4s on two separate occasions to officers who qualified for it. Call me jaded. I appreciate your position, but I believe there is more to it. Be safe and I will say to every officer : wear your vest
                                Last edited by unblindeacon; 03-19-2013, 07:31 PM.
                                http://i46.tinypic.com/152i8tt.jpg
                                NEVER FORGETTING OUR HERO'S

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