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  • NYPD to train rookies with assault rifles

    CITY COPS PREP FOR 'MUMBAI' MACHINE-GUN TRAINING

    In the aftermath of the deadly Mumbai terror attacks, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly has come out with guns blazing - with a plan to get all 1,000 rookie cops ready to use heavy artillery in time for New Year's Eve, The Post has learned.

    The NYPD wants all 1,000 Police Academy recruits trained to use M4 automatic machine guns - which are now carried only by the 400 cops in its elite Emergency Service Unit - in time for the holiday celebration in Times Square.

    The recruits currently at the academy will get three days of training to familiarize them with the weapon, police said.

    The department also plans to train its 2,000 officers in the Organized Crime Control Bureau. They include narcotics, vice, gang- and auto-crime cops. That means five times as many cops will be able to use these powerful weapons as now.

    "In the event of multiple terrorist attacks, these other units will be deployed to supplement Emergency Services," said NYPD spokesman Paul Browne.

    Kelly had proposed training other cops in the use of the weapon, a compact version of the M16 combat assault rifle used by the military, during previous "tabletop exercises" that dealt with responding to multiple terrorist attacks, Browne said. The final decision to undertake the training was made after the three-day Mumbai, India, assault, which began Nov. 26.

    In the carnage in the city formerly known as Bombay, 10 terrorists carrying automatic rifles and grenades attacked a railway station, a market, a restaurant popular with foreigners, two luxury hotels and a Jewish center.

    At least 195 people were killed and 295 wounded. The dead included 18 foreigners, among them six Americans.

    Police sources said NYPD brass decided to train the members of the current academy class because they are all in one place and it is easier than bringing them back for instruction once they are in the field.

    The recruits' three-day training is being called "familiarization" because it is shorter than the two weeks Emergency Service officers receive on such weapons. However, those cops also get training in other heavy weapons during that time.

    The recruits' instruction will be carried out at the police range at Rodman's Neck in The Bronx.

    There is no intelligence Times Square will be a target on New Year's Eve. The area will be on high alert, but has been so for every year since the millennium.

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    http://www.nypost.com/seven/12082008...bai_143196.htm

    NYCAPO
    Peace Officer
    Last edited by NYCAPO; 12-08-2008, 03:00 PM.
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  • #2
    A couple of things make me cringe -

    The NYPD wants all 1,000 Police Academy recruits trained to use M4 automatic machine guns - I'm guessing stupid reporter here

    3 day familiarization?? How is this going to make anyone proficient. We go through a 5 day, 45 hour class to carry on the street and then have to qualify twice a year (one day, one night). Both quals are full training days with the qual course incorporated into it.

    IMHO, and I am by no means an expert, 3 days familarization in one of the most densely populated cities, then put them away until they are needed is not a good plan.
    "We're not in this business for the money. We're not in it for the excitement, and moments like this. Duty, honor, country, service, truth, and justice are good. But you can do that from behind a desk. In the end, you carry a gun and shield out into the field for the sole purpose of confronting the bad guys. The enemy. There is no other reason to be on the front lines." ~Nelson Demille

    If your story involves Peanut Butter and an animal - give up now!
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    • #3
      its actually 1 day training, using 10 rounds w/ the M4.

      No rookies will be patrol rifle certified, or able to sign out/use an M4 on patrol. This training is to familarize recruits with an M4. I believe one of the recruits on here said the training is for a rookie who happens to find an M4 at his feet from a downed ESU officer, or perp they can use the gun and know its operation.
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Finders keepers

        Will this be like the "lost wallet" posts where you find a M-4 laying on the floor of a Pub or in the gutter somewhere. You pick it up, stuff it in your jacket and swarms come down to 'nick' you ?

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        • #5
          So is it really a "This is how to unload and make the M4 safe" class? They should add unloading and making a shotgun safe as well.

          Glad to hear they are not deploying them to patrol rookies.
          "We're not in this business for the money. We're not in it for the excitement, and moments like this. Duty, honor, country, service, truth, and justice are good. But you can do that from behind a desk. In the end, you carry a gun and shield out into the field for the sole purpose of confronting the bad guys. The enemy. There is no other reason to be on the front lines." ~Nelson Demille

          If your story involves Peanut Butter and an animal - give up now!
          sigpic

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          • #6
            If they wanted to train patrol guys, they should go through CPIs and get former military and combat vets. Training could be streamlined as opposed to someone who's only seen an m-4 on tv.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Xjarhead View Post
              If they wanted to train patrol guys, they should go through CPIs and get former military and combat vets. Training could be streamlined as opposed to someone who's only seen an m-4 on tv.
              Exactly...go through the CPI's first..we have a lot of veterans in our ranks..give those guys the training..make the learning curve as short as possible. My department, we have a 3-day basic rifle class and a 3-day advanced rifle..doesn't take that much time to train with an M4..point and shoot..that simple. Way easier than a pistol!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Xjarhead View Post
                If they wanted to train patrol guys, they should go through CPIs and get former military and combat vets. Training could be streamlined as opposed to someone who's only seen an m-4 on tv.
                Ya but that doesn't really do any good if they want everyone to be trained equally. Plus LE training on the M-4 differs a little than military training of it. i.e. which hand used to rack it....

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                • #9
                  a lot of foreign counties there police departments wear heavy gear and assault rifles as part of there normal patrol esp in europe because they get hit hard with the most terrorist attacks.

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                  • #10
                    Ya but that doesn't really do any good if they want everyone to be trained equally. Plus LE training on the M-4 differs a little than military training of it. i.e. which hand used to rack it....
                    I'm missing your point.

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                    • #11
                      My point is; instead of having differing training among officers, i.e. streamline it for vets...why not just train everyone the same the way your department wants it. So that at least everyone on the dept has had the exact same training on the M-4, no more no less, per your dept's standards.

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                      • #12
                        Have read about a world wide ammo shortage because of the wars ongoing....is the amount of ammo necessary available ?

                        How many hundreds of thoursands of rounds would NYPD require to have everyone trained up to military standards with the M-4....plus.....how many more M-4's would NYPD have to purchase....plus.....where would they place the new firing ranges necessary to train up 36,000 NYPD ?.....how long would that take ?

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                        • #13
                          here is a suggestion why does the nypd ask which officers own an ar-15 and then offer to train them and give them 30rnd mags and wateva else they would require thats a pretty good solution....o wait this is the nypd where logic doesnt exsist

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by beachcop05 View Post
                            Ya but that doesn't really do any good if they want everyone to be trained equally. Plus LE training on the M-4 differs a little than military training of it. i.e. which hand used to rack it....
                            The manual of arms is the same, regardless of .mil or LE. I don't get what you mean.

                            The ROE is what separates the two. Even then, not so much.

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                            • #15
                              Beachcop,
                              The idea was getting a core trained and ready quickly. No matter how they do it a vet w/ years of experiance is always going to have more training in regards to this weapon then someone who's not a vet. I havent held an m16a2 in over 10 years but i know i could put one into action immediately.

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