Permit to carry denial

[ixat]

Earlier this year, I applied for a permit to carry and was denied. This was based on a police report in which there were no arrests or charges against me. ( I had a valid CCW from the state I had moved from about a year previous to this, it was never revoked because of the incident in question) I spoke with a few different lawyers, all of who told me I had a good case and would most likely get the denial reversed. The only problem at that time was coming up with the money for the attorney. Long story short, since I didn't have the money and my previous ccw wasn't valid in Minnesota, I ended up getting a non-resident permit from another state which is honored in Minnesota. My question, if I get pulled over and inform the officer I am carrying and present my out of state permit will I be hassled for not having a MN permit? I have heard the denial goes on my DL record for 6 years, so I would assume they would find out about the denial as soon as they ran my info. Thanks in advance.

[fg-trs]

You should probably appeal your denial with or without an attorney if you are certain the only reason for it was this one police report and that the content of said report doesn't prohibit you from obtaining a permit under Minnesota law.

I would be very suspicious of a Minnesota resident carrying a pistol with an out of state permit. At the very least it could be time consuming as I tried to verify the legality, authenticity, and validity of your out of state permit. This is not a problem when I am presented a valid MN permit.

[BEK320]

I agree with fg-trs. If you and I are on a traffic stop and you have a MN license a MN car and a out of state CW permit I would be on that stop alot longer trying to verify everything. It would be more of a hassle and you may find yourself sitting on the side of the road alot longer than you want to

[joelr]

At the very least it could be time consuming as I tried to verify the legality, authenticity, and validity of your out of state permit.

Shouldn't be; it's all pretty simple and straightforward. All state permits except those posted on the DPS "bad list" as such are valid in Minnesota*. Authenticity of a Utah permit (the usual workaround for the Ramsey County problem) is easy to verify; the Utah BCI folks are very sharp and responsive, and, well, they're in the book, and all.

This is not a problem when I am presented a valid MN permit.

True. All in all, I think it's a good thing for folks who live in MN to get the MN permit -- issues around Ramsey aside -- but the validity of out-of-state permits isn't a complicated issue at all, and is almost preposterously simple when compared to some of the difficult points of law that professional law enforcement folks deal with on a daily basis.

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* There's some factual errors at the link; the key one is that the DPS doesn't "grant reciprocity" but, once per year, issues a list of those states whose issuance laws are not "substantially similar" to Minnesota's. But the list of those states whose issuance laws haven't been ruled not substantially similar by the Commissioner is accurate, and binding.

[sigcopper]

joelr- Please don't take offense, but in reading your post and then reading your profile, I'm not so certain you know exactly how things work on the street.

Sure, everything is handy while sitting in an comfortable office and can jump onto a web site to verify information. But when you are sitting in a squad car at 2 a.m. and are at the mercy of an under paid and over worked dispatcher and hope the dispatcher can get the information for you and this is the same dispatcher that has run a ton of information over the night for you and they are tired of working for you and you have calls backing up and your partners are taking your calls while you are dealing with a MN resident who didn't get a MN handgun permit ect. ect........get my picture (run on sentence for effect)?

Thankfully this issue doesn't pop up all that often but that is a problem by itself. Since we don't have these issue arise often it becomes more difficult to recall what you did the last time. I work in a city of 40,000 and in 10 years of working in MN, I've had this issue come up one time. So, what might seem nice and easy to you isn't so nice and easy to the average street cop.

Please don't take offense since I mean none but things aren't as "rosey" as they might seem in the law enforcement arena.

[joelr]

joelr- Please don't take offense, but in reading your post and then reading your profile, I'm not so certain you know exactly how things work on the street.

Sure, everything is handy while sitting in an comfortable office and can jump onto a web site to verify information. But when you are sitting in a squad car at 2 a.m. and are at the mercy of an under paid and over worked dispatcher and hope the dispatcher can get the information for you and this is the same dispatcher that has run a ton of information over the night for you and they are tired of working for you and you have calls backing up and your partners are taking your calls while you are dealing with a MN resident who didn't get a MN handgun permit ect. ect........get my picture (run on sentence for effect)?

Thankfully this issue doesn't pop up all that often but that is a problem by itself. Since we don't have these issue arise often it becomes more difficult to recall what you did the last time. I work in a city of 40,000 and in 10 years of working in MN, I've had this issue come up one time. So, what might seem nice and easy to you isn't so nice and easy to the average street cop.

Please don't take offense since I mean none but things aren't as "rosey" as they might seem in the law enforcement arena.

Oh, I understand what you're saying, and even agree with some of it. The retired (and, occasionally, serving) cops I train (carry permit; HR218 for the retired guys -- we could get into why, in the age of HR218, it might be a good idea for a serving LEO to get a carry permit, but you probably have worked that out already) just about never report knowingly running into a permit holder at all*, and then it's always on something trivial -- 65 in a 55, or something similar. And while it's taking a while for the new paradigm to sink in -- for good or ill (and it's both) the LEO community is conservative -- more and more of the good, service-oriented officers are getting that carrying a handgun on a permit is just an ordinary thing for a citizen to do, and nothing to worry about.

Given that, and given how simple and straightforward MN's carry law is -- and it really is -- it's not a lot to ask that professional LEO folks who are enforcing it familiarize themselves with it. And I think most departments have; while a fair number of instructors have standing offers to do a short in service on the subject, it's really the kind of thing that should take about ten minutes, maybe, at roll call once a year, just to be on the safe side, and I'm not surprised that so many departments have done it just that way rather than bringing in outsiders.

That said, some -- and I'm thinking Roseville and Minneapolis; I'm sure that there are other agencies that have missed the boat, but I'm not sure which ones -- clearly need to do some better training. But it shouldn't be a big deal. This stuff is, thankfully, pretty easy; you deal with real difficult matters all the time, and there's no reason to reinvent the wheel over the simple stuff.


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* With 1% of the population having permits, of course, they're actually around permit holders a whole lot, but don't have any reason to know about it, except on rare occasions.