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Change to the state carry law recently?

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  • #16
    OK. Here is one I need clarification on.

    I am a licensed officer in MN. I am allowed to carry a concealed firearm while off-duty. If I were to encounter a situation where I would use deadly force off duty I would be held to a "law enforcement" standard -- that is, I was acting as a police officer and would be held to the police officer standard.

    I was considering obtaining a conceal and carry permit. If I were to obtain one, and had a non-department qualified firearm, and I was involved in a deadly force situation would I be treated as a normal citizen would or would I be considered an "off duty" police officer.

    Where is the line drawn for off duty officers while carrying a firearm with a conceal and carry permit?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Minnesota Cop View Post
      OK. Here is one I need clarification on.

      I am a licensed officer in MN. I am allowed to carry a concealed firearm while off-duty. If I were to encounter a situation where I would use deadly force off duty I would be held to a "law enforcement" standard -- that is, I was acting as a police officer and would be held to the police officer standard.

      I was considering obtaining a conceal and carry permit. If I were to obtain one, and had a non-department qualified firearm, and I was involved in a deadly force situation would I be treated as a normal citizen would or would I be considered an "off duty" police officer.

      Where is the line drawn for off duty officers while carrying a firearm with a conceal and carry permit?
      I think you have a few issues here to consider.

      1. The law and dept. policy are two different things in many respects. So if you shoot someone say with a firearm that is not dept. approved, but yet you are still justified as a peace officer using deadly force legally with regard to the shoot I think you would be fine.

      2. You screw up, and you are in violation of policy, you can lose your immunity as a cop. Most of the time where I have heard of this happening is during pursuits and not terminating when ordered.

      3. If I were suing you, I would sue you and your dept. You most likely received a bulk of your firearms training, use of force, and statute training from you full time dept. Ergo, they would be on my hit list since your dept. most likely has more $$ than you.

      So the answer to your original question is I don't know.

      I would surmise that you would be held to the peace officer standard on or off duty in the event that you used deadly force.

      My .02 of legal advice, remember you get what you pay for.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by 40cal View Post
        I think you have a few issues here to consider.

        1. The law and dept. policy are two different things in many respects. So if you shoot someone say with a firearm that is not dept. approved, but yet you are still justified as a peace officer using deadly force legally with regard to the shoot I think you would be fine.

        2. You screw up, and you are in violation of policy, you can lose your immunity as a cop. Most of the time where I have heard of this happening is during pursuits and not terminating when ordered.

        3. If I were suing you, I would sue you and your dept. You most likely received a bulk of your firearms training, use of force, and statute training from you full time dept. Ergo, they would be on my hit list since your dept. most likely has more $$ than you.

        So the answer to your original question is I don't know.

        I would surmise that you would be held to the peace officer standard on or off duty in the event that you used deadly force.

        My .02 of legal advice, remember you get what you pay for.
        This is what I thought also. Maybe something to talk to my city attorney about?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Minnesota Cop View Post
          This is what I thought also. Maybe something to talk to my city attorney about?
          If it means that much to you, I would.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by BEK320 View Post
            Well they never really did, because the signs were for permit holders and Police dont have permits.
            Incorrect the law as orginally passed stated "On-duty Peace Officers are excempt" They changed that to just "Peace Officers" dropping the on-duty part.
            Happy to be here proud to serve

            "Well it appears this lock does not accept american express."

            Never trust fire fighters to point out a suspect.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by 40cal View Post
              I think you have a few issues here to consider.

              1. The law and dept. policy are two different things in many respects. So if you shoot someone say with a firearm that is not dept. approved, but yet you are still justified as a peace officer using deadly force legally with regard to the shoot I think you would be fine.

              2. You screw up, and you are in violation of policy, you can lose your immunity as a cop. Most of the time where I have heard of this happening is during pursuits and not terminating when ordered.

              3. If I were suing you, I would sue you and your dept. You most likely received a bulk of your firearms training, use of force, and statute training from you full time dept. Ergo, they would be on my hit list since your dept. most likely has more $$ than you.

              So the answer to your original question is I don't know.

              I would surmise that you would be held to the peace officer standard on or off duty in the event that you used deadly force.

              My .02 of legal advice, remember you get what you pay for.
              To add another .01, as a civilian permit holder, you have a "duty to retreat" where as a peace officer, you don't.
              Just call me "Sir Robin"

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Minnesota Cop View Post
                OK. Here is one I need clarification on.

                I am a licensed officer in MN. I am allowed to carry a concealed firearm while off-duty. If I were to encounter a situation where I would use deadly force off duty I would be held to a "law enforcement" standard -- that is, I was acting as a police officer and would be held to the police officer standard.

                I was considering obtaining a conceal and carry permit. If I were to obtain one, and had a non-department qualified firearm, and I was involved in a deadly force situation would I be treated as a normal citizen would or would I be considered an "off duty" police officer.

                Where is the line drawn for off duty officers while carrying a firearm with a conceal and carry permit?
                IANAL, and all, but I can't see why you wouldn't want to do everything you could to arrange to be held to the looser legal standards of 609.06 and 609.065 rather than 609.066, if that were possible, while maintaining your social and legal privileges as an offduty LEO.

                Beyond that, it's cheap insurance. $100 for your carry permit amounts to $20/year for the first five years, and with renewals maxed out at $75, it's less after that*; whether or not it might be valuable insurance, I dunno -- but it is inexpensive.

                (When I do HR218 training for retired cops, I strongly encourage them to take out a MN carry permit, FWIW. And while I may be right or wrong, I don't have any skin in that game, in that context; I don't charge them anything extra for the MN cert, as my HR218 class was deliberately written to cover the requirements of 624.714, anyway.)

                ________________
                *YMMV. Prices lower and service standard higher than usual in Washington County.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Any updates on the gun issue at HCMC?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by brindisi View Post
                    Any updates on the gun issue at HCMC?
                    They never did carry firearms after that. Not sure what all transpired, but they remained unarmed until the prisoner they were watching was discharged.
                    Just call me "Sir Robin"

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Did the issue of people carrying get resolved? Are you able to legally ban permit holders?

                      Comment

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