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  • active shooter

    This is the **** that really has to get you thinking. I mean this is the call when you know that people are going to die. Are you ready? Do you carry off duty? It ****es me off to no end that there are guys in my agency that "never carry off duty cause I never need too" that is total BS.

    Active shooter is the kind of call that defines officers...I am proud to see the officers in Virgina RUNNING full out gto the sound of gun fire. This is what we do we run towards the danger...just like firefighters, just like those that wear our countries uniform.

    I have been on several calls when gunshots where going off right next to us, if you are not ready for that do not go to skills do not try for this job it ain't for you. Class mates of mine have been in shootings, I have come as close as you can come to a shooting with out it happening. Point blank this is a dangerous job. This is a job that can get you seriously injured if not killed. This is not about "helping others" or any other type BS you spew to the interview panels to get this job.

    My point of this rant is that active shooters are happening more and more often. We need to be warriors in this job end of story. If you can not understand that and be willing to live the life of a warrior this ain't the job for you. We as Peace officers must be prepared to use violence in our job. We use applied violence to gain control of people and situations. If you are not prepared to do that go away. I watched people in skills and other training sessions either refuse to enage in this type of training or hang back, those people are doing a disservice to their fellow officers and the public they "serve". Be ready its going to happen.
    Happy to be here proud to serve

    "Well it appears this lock does not accept american express."

    Never trust fire fighters to point out a suspect.

  • #2
    Originally posted by squad51
    This is the **** that really has to get you thinking. I mean this is the call when you know that people are going to die. Are you ready? Do you carry off duty? It ****es me off to no end that there are guys in my agency that "never carry off duty cause I never need too" that is total BS.

    Active shooter is the kind of call that defines officers...I am proud to see the officers in Virgina RUNNING full out gto the sound of gun fire. This is what we do we run towards the danger...just like firefighters, just like those that wear our countries uniform.

    I have been on several calls when gunshots where going off right next to us, if you are not ready for that do not go to skills do not try for this job it ain't for you. Class mates of mine have been in shootings, I have come as close as you can come to a shooting with out it happening. Point blank this is a dangerous job. This is a job that can get you seriously injured if not killed. This is not about "helping others" or any other type BS you spew to the interview panels to get this job.

    My point of this rant is that active shooters are happening more and more often. We need to be warriors in this job end of story. If you can not understand that and be willing to live the life of a warrior this ain't the job for you. We as Peace officers must be prepared to use violence in our job. We use applied violence to gain control of people and situations. If you are not prepared to do that go away. I watched people in skills and other training sessions either refuse to enage in this type of training or hang back, those people are doing a disservice to their fellow officers and the public they "serve". Be ready its going to happen.


    I don't totally agree with you, thats not to say you are wrong, you mentioned some good points here. However I can see many pro's and con's to carrying your service weapon off-duty and actually using it, more so the con's outweighing the pro's. One being, the first thing you will be asked is were you off duty and not in uniform? you say YES! (which is fine) Now this opens up a different issue and all kinds of controversy. You are going to be interrogated, just as the bad guys, although you and others might see yourself as being the "hero" in this situation. That facts remains, you just discharged your service weapon, let alone off-duty and possibly diff. jurisdiction, you are now a "suspect". Once again maybe you feel you were justified in what you did, but maybe the jury see's it differently, maybe the guy used a toy gun, maybe the guy had no bullets in his gun, maybe you thought you saw a gun, maybe you had two beers a few hours ago and thought it was out of your system....etc. The point here is there's too much at Chance, by always carrying your service weapon off-duty. It doesn't matter whether you wound a guy or kill a man and it was "just", you are gonna have to answer some questions. And in this LIBERAL state of MN, I can see plenty of jurrors just looking for reasons to get back at the COPS. OR how bout a White off-duty COP shooting a minority, think of all the controversy that case would cause, regardless if it was "just or not.

    Although I like your go get"em attitude and "warrior" spirit, I don't think it's total B.S NOT to carry a weapon off-duty, its their choice. I'm NOT saying that you should never carry a weapon off-duty, all i'm saying is there's certain places and situations when you should and shouln't carry them.

    I would also like to comment on the Virgina shooting. I too am proud of the Virgina officer's at VT for what they do. However, we should take a closer look at what went wrong in this case, 32 people dead, largest rampage death in U.S History and only one shooter? I don't know about you all, but I think there could of possibly been some different steps taken to prevent some of these deaths. I don't know all the facts of this case, but I do know there are 32 dead and only one shooter, unless he was a marine sniper, I think many of these deaths could have been prevented.

    This is just my .02, and my own personal opinon, I might be biased a little because im from the suburbs.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Beaver_Hockey
      I don't totally agree with you, thats not to say you are wrong, you mentioned some good points here. However I can see many pro's and con's to carrying your service weapon off-duty and actually using it, more so the con's outweighing the pro's. One being, the first thing you will be asked is were you off duty and not in uniform? you say YES! (which is fine) Now this opens up a different issue and all kinds of controversy. You are going to be interrogated, just as the bad guys, although you and others might see yourself as being the "hero" in this situation. That facts remains, you just discharged your service weapon, let alone off-duty and possibly diff. jurisdiction, you are now a "suspect". Once again maybe you feel you were justified in what you did, but maybe the jury see's it differently, maybe the guy used a toy gun, maybe the guy had no bullets in his gun, maybe you thought you saw a gun, maybe you had two beers a few hours ago and thought it was out of your system....etc. The point here is there's too much at Chance, by always carrying your service weapon off-duty. It doesn't matter whether you wound a guy or kill a man and it was "just", you are gonna have to answer some questions. And in this LIBERAL state of MN, I can see plenty of jurrors just looking for reasons to get back at the COPS. OR how bout a White off-duty COP shooting a minority, think of all the controversy that case would cause, regardless if it was "just or not.

      Although I like your go get"em attitude and "warrior" spirit, I don't think it's total B.S NOT to carry a weapon off-duty, its their choice. I'm NOT saying that you should never carry a weapon off-duty, all i'm saying is there's certain places and situations when you should and shouln't carry them.

      I would also like to comment on the Virgina shooting. I too am proud of the Virgina officer's at VT for what they do. However, we should take a closer look at what went wrong in this case, 32 people dead, largest rampage death in U.S History and only one shooter? I don't know about you all, but I think there could of possibly been some different steps taken to prevent some of these deaths. I don't know all the facts of this case, but I do know there are 32 dead and only one shooter, unless he was a marine sniper, I think many of these deaths could have been prevented.

      This is just my .02, and my own personal opinon, I might be biased a little because im from the suburbs.
      1. I am not going to be "interrogated" as a bad guy (not to say that I would not have to give a statement I would but I would have my lawyer and union rep there) I am a police officer and state licensed. There are rules and laws that affect the use of deadly force by a police officer on or off duty, jurisdiction does not apply. If you are a license police officer in the state of MN and use your fire arm off duty you are instantly on duty for the state of MN and will be covered by the state. Thats state law by the way.

      2. The fake gun, no bullets in the gun arguement...yeah um no comment but finish school because you obiviously have not had use of force classes yet.

      3. I again would not be a suspect...sheesh what are they teaching you????? You need to read the relevant laws and policies in the state of MN for licensed police officers.

      4. Hero is not the word I would use...if thats why you think I or anyone else got into this career...wow.

      5. When I drink (extremely rare) I do not carry my fire arm per my depts policy. Officers that do are doing so at their own peril, my dept has shown a real clear policy that will result in bad things happening to that officers career should they be found to be drinking and carring.

      6. I am not advancing the idea that off duty officers should seek out bad guys. In fact being a good witness is 99% of the time a better option. But there is that 1% time. Recently a off duty officer in Salt Lake City saved a lot of lives by pinning down the bad guy. But he was prepared he was carring and he took action and it saved lives. He was out oof his jurisdiction and did excatly the right thing he ID'd himself to officers responding he had his wife call 911 and advise dispatch to advise responding officers of his presence and that he was armed and in plain clothes.

      7. What are they teaching you in school? WOW are you off base in a lot of what you.....um think is the way things are done, very cleary you have watched a lot of cop shows. Officers involved in a critical incident in this state are not interogated. They are given the opportunity to talk to a laywer and have them and a union rep there prior to giving any statements other then a quick interview at the scene for critical information such as, number of suspects, description and how many times the officer fired.

      8. I agree with some of your comments about the active shooter in VA, although I will not comment at this time until more facts come out.

      9. Going back to my point #4 that hero comment is really....how to say this nicely....insulting. It is obviously clear from your comments that you are not a police officer (plus I read your profile) Not that I know everything there is to know about being a cop I have been one for 7 years. I freely admit that I have a lot to learn about this job and how to do it better. But most of your comments are not based in fact or exeraince and you make some points that are simply insulting. While I agree that MN is a very liberal state law enforcement in this state is generally well supported by the public (maybe not the judges and the law makers). I can not remember a single officer being strung up for a shooting in this state. Even when officers have killed the wrong person, accidently shot people during foot chases, after car crashes and other things those officers still remain on the job and not in jail. This is not to say that officers who have intentionally used excessive force in this state have not gotten prison time (they have).

      10. I would actually like to know where you came up with this stuff.....
      Last edited by squad51; 04-17-2007, 12:42 AM.
      Happy to be here proud to serve

      "Well it appears this lock does not accept american express."

      Never trust fire fighters to point out a suspect.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by squad51
        10. I would actually like to know where you came up with this stuff.....
        Same here.

        Great post Squad!
        The views expressed in the above post are the sole opinion of the author and do not reflect any official position by the author's employer and/or municipality.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by squad51
          10. I would actually like to know where you came up with this stuff.....
          Probably from a class or two that he had that was being taught by some whacked out teacher that's been out of the field for 40 years.....or was never in the field in the first place but things they are an expert in stuff like this.....

          One of the reasons I dropped by bid at a CJ minor and stuck with English........

          Comment


          • #6
            Back on topic.....my old PD back in MO has had (2) bomb threats in the last week.....the school district closed for the day on Friday because of it.......

            Chief was going nuts when I talked to him today....because he's trying to keep the PD on their A Game for the next week or so due to a certain anniversary coming up on Friday.....and the VT mess was going on......

            Comment


            • #7
              I agree, I am not a police officer yet, but I have am lucky enough to be able to carry a handgun unlike alot of states. I know there are totally different rules that apply to citizens carrying a heater, compared to a police officer, but if the **** is going down like it did out east You better believe I will go take whoever the crazy manic that is shooting,"if The Police are not present". I would be also more than willing to offer up my assistance to the police in situation like that. I think that these weak people that call police and citizen's like me "hero's" or Hotshots" are generally afraid of their own shadow. Some day I know that I will have the honor to serve like all you coppers on here. I think people are too much in the gray area when it comes to these selfish ******* killers out in our world and it time stop letting people scare our country into submission.
              just don't criticize our heros in blue who give it all for us.
              Reserve Officer and Community Service Officer
              M.M.

              Comment


              • #8
                http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/onsheepw...sheepdogs.html

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by squad51
                  1. I am not going to be "interrogated" as a bad guy (not to say that I would not have to give a statement I would but I would have my lawyer and union rep there) I am a police officer and state licensed. There are rules and laws that affect the use of deadly force by a police officer on or off duty, jurisdiction does not apply. If you are a license police officer in the state of MN and use your fire arm off duty you are instantly on duty for the state of MN and will be covered by the state. Thats state law by the way.

                  2. The fake gun, no bullets in the gun arguement...yeah um no comment but finish school because you obiviously have not had use of force classes yet.

                  3. I again would not be a suspect...sheesh what are they teaching you????? You need to read the relevant laws and policies in the state of MN for licensed police officers.

                  4. Hero is not the word I would use...if thats why you think I or anyone else got into this career...wow.

                  5. When I drink (extremely rare) I do not carry my fire arm per my depts policy. Officers that do are doing so at their own peril, my dept has shown a real clear policy that will result in bad things happening to that officers career should they be found to be drinking and carring.

                  6. I am not advancing the idea that off duty officers should seek out bad guys. In fact being a good witness is 99% of the time a better option. But there is that 1% time. Recently a off duty officer in Salt Lake City saved a lot of lives by pinning down the bad guy. But he was prepared he was carring and he took action and it saved lives. He was out oof his jurisdiction and did excatly the right thing he ID'd himself to officers responding he had his wife call 911 and advise dispatch to advise responding officers of his presence and that he was armed and in plain clothes.

                  7. What are they teaching you in school? WOW are you off base in a lot of what you.....um think is the way things are done, very cleary you have watched a lot of cop shows. Officers involved in a critical incident in this state are not interogated. They are given the opportunity to talk to a laywer and have them and a union rep there prior to giving any statements other then a quick interview at the scene for critical information such as, number of suspects, description and how many times the officer fired.

                  8. I agree with some of your comments about the active shooter in VA, although I will not comment at this time until more facts come out.

                  9. Going back to my point #4 that hero comment is really....how to say this nicely....insulting. It is obviously clear from your comments that you are not a police officer (plus I read your profile) Not that I know everything there is to know about being a cop I have been one for 7 years. I freely admit that I have a lot to learn about this job and how to do it better. But most of your comments are not based in fact or exeraince and you make some points that are simply insulting. While I agree that MN is a very liberal state law enforcement in this state is generally well supported by the public (maybe not the judges and the law makers). I can not remember a single officer being strung up for a shooting in this state. Even when officers have killed the wrong person, accidently shot people during foot chases, after car crashes and other things those officers still remain on the job and not in jail. This is not to say that officers who have intentionally used excessive force in this state have not gotten prison time (they have).

                  10. I would actually like to know where you came up with this stuff.....
                  You are missing the point here. Im not knocking the idea of officers carrying off duty, just saying it should be there choice, and I can see there reasons for doing so. Thats It!!. Sure you are going to have a lawyer and union Rep. present. We all know that, I also believe the fact that you are a licensed police officer. Your profile clearly says 4 years...well done. And your statement about using a firearm off duty: "you are saying if you are a licensed police officer in the state of MN and use your firearm off duty, you are instantly on duty for the stae of MN and covered by the state". So if you shoot at pop cans in your backyard, I guess your covered then...lol?? However regardless of what the Law says, the reality is it doesn't always pan out that way. At least not before a long drawn out process of answering questions, plus constant stress and headaches, for months. Hell theres enough problems and controversy in our society with on duty officers in uniform shooting suspects, damn LIBERALS. Now think of shooting while off duty not in uniform, can you see any possible problems that might occur??

                  The statements, I made about toy guns, alcohol...etc, were just meant to give you examples of (headaches coming forth) These were not meant to be totally reliable & valid examples. Just to get you thinking outside the box. As for my education and background go, Im not going to read you resume on here. PM me about myself and family background, I'm sure you'll be more than satisfied. And for the record, I have a Bachelor's Degree in Criminal Justice, and a Master's Degree in Police Leadership.

                  You also say you would not be a "suspect" or "interrogated"........ okay, im not going to argue what you think, thats your deal. I guess somehow you think by discharging your service weapon off duty and shooting a guy, you are totally excempt from the law. Alright, well yeah, I guess officer Jones said it was an accident, he didnt mean to kill that guy, oh well, he is an officer, I guess he's excempt (sarcasm). However I might agree that the end result is you will in most cases, and acting as a responsible off duty officer you'll be covered and fine. But not before a long drawn out process of questioning, your reasoning, judgement... etc, as well as a lot of stress and headaches, not to mention paid admin. leave from your job. It's not like you just go home and everyone forgets about it. The same goes for citizens,i.e, lets say a man catches a burglar in his home and shoots and kills him, justifable homicide?? Probably, But not before some questioning and answers, thats all im saying!! And I also agree that these are rare occurences, and that a better option 99% of the time is spent being good witness's. However when you carry off duty, these chance increase the likelyhood of possibly using your weapon. You also stated "While I agree that MN is a very liberal state law enforcement in this state is generally well supported by the public (maybe not the judges and the law makers)." Well who do you think has the biggest impact??

                  You Stated: "I can not remember a single officer being strung up for a shooting in this state. Even when officers have killed the wrong person, accidently shot people during foot chases, after car crashes and other things those officers still remain on the job and not in jail." (Try Google) type in officer's reprimanded or disciplined, look for on and off duty use of force & using firearms in MN.



                  As far as (cpd3375) "comment: but if the **** is going down like it did out east You better believe I will go take whoever the crazy manic that is shooting,"if The Police are not present". I would be also more than willing to offer up my assistance to the police in situation like that"

                  haha woah easy there big feller, yo yo i'm down with that I'll let you know when St. Paul or Mlps has a crazy manic out on the prowl, you can take the law into your own hands, I'm sure the police need more ppl out there like you, thats the warrior spirit were looking for!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I was telling this to my roomate yesterday, that I with my handgun and a few clips could go around our apartment complex and if no one else had a weapon I could kill everyone before the cops get here.

                    It's not that hard with a semi-auto hand gun to kill a lot of people in a short period of time.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You know, I had a nice post written out, but then realized that Beaver Hockey is not even really reading the other posts so why waste my time?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Beaver_Hockey

                        As far as (cpd3375) "comment: but if the **** is going down like it did out east You better believe I will go take whoever the crazy manic that is shooting,"if The Police are not present". I would be also more than willing to offer up my assistance to the police in situation like that"

                        haha woah easy there big feller, yo yo i'm down with that I'll let you know when St. Paul or Mlps has a crazy manic out on the prowl, you can take the law into your own hands, I'm sure the police need more ppl out there like you, thats the warrior spirit were looking for!!
                        At least he would have the stones to act and not sit there and contemplate the legal issues of taking action against an active shooter.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 40cal
                          At least he would have the stones to act and not sit there and contemplate the legal issues of taking action against an active shooter.

                          Hah I figured this whole thing would turn against me, and yes 40 Cal I read your post and webpage, it's cute. But I'd still rather contemplate the legal issues

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Beaver_Hockey
                            Hah I figured this whole thing would turn against me, and yes 40 Cal I read your post and webpage, it's cute. But I'd still rather contemplate the legal issues
                            Beaver, there is a time to contemplate legal issues and there is a time to act.

                            In the midst of people being killed is not the time to contemplate legalities of legal intervention while off duty and/or outside your jurisdiciton. People will do that for you in the months and years to come.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 40cal
                              Beaver, there is a time to contemplate legal issues and there is a time to act.

                              In the midst of people being killed is not the time to contemplate legalities of legal intervention while off duty and/or outside your jurisdiciton. People will do that for you in the months and years to come.

                              I agree.......... however I would feel morally responsible if I acted without thinking a little bit about the legal issue first...... so therefore I like to think first, then act.
                              Alright now that everybody hates me, its okay i'm actually used to it, reminds me of the college years of the constant debating Liberal classmates about various issues throughout the years.

                              Comment

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