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  • Must arrest to fingerprint...

    I did a ride along recently and also been studying traffic codes, crimes against person, and crimes against property the last couple months.

    We also discussed due process in great detail for fingerprinting.

    Anyone come across any problems with those nifty little wireless devices that can check a thumb-print on the street? Sounds like there is 1 or more in each department? The person I rode with said their department only had 1 currently, but more should be on the way.

    I can see problems arising out of using these on the scene for checks.
    Thoughts?

    /edit: I was thinking along the lines of due process or other rights that may be violated for checking a print against a database before arrest?
    Last edited by MNCopper; 09-30-2005, 03:36 PM.

  • #2
    The dept I was a reserve at had one, but they never used it. It was an older model I think and kind of a PITA to use. That said, I think they are pretty cool and would be interested to see what the "latest and greatest" are like.

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    • #3
      Now I am not a LEO yet, but I would believe this might cause some problems with 4th Amendment - unreasonable search and seizure.

      Even a new lawyer could argue that if the person didn't honor your request (i.e. giving their prints) then you as a LEO will automatically believe that the person is guilty of doing something wrong when you didn't have probable cause to do so.

      You mentioned it being used at scenes - what kind of scenes were you referring to?

      Also note - I have seen my local H.S. use a PBT to check to see if students have alcohol in their systems when they come to after-school events (dances, prom, school sporting events) and such. According to them, if a student has alcohol in their system, they are simply asked to call their parents to come and get them and they get sent home.....no criminal charges, no school disiplinary actions. That I have less of a problem with.

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      • #4
        The reason one would use the fingerprint device is to verify someone's identity.

        If I have a legal reason to identify you, and you do not have an ID card of some sort with you, then how would it violate your due process if I am able to have access to a database that may have your fingerprints?

        If one were to randomly go up to people and take their fingerprints, then yes, I would imagine you would have a problem, but in the context of a detention where I need to identify you I don't see a big issue.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Maxx102
          Now I am not a LEO yet, but I would believe this might cause some problems with 4th Amendment - unreasonable search and seizure.

          Even a new lawyer could argue that if the person didn't honor your request (i.e. giving their prints) then you as a LEO will automatically believe that the person is guilty of doing something wrong when you didn't have probable cause to do so.
          Whooaaa...slow down there buddy. If I am issuing a tag and there is no way to ID the individual, I take a index fingerprint to be placed on the tag. It happens a lot, and by no means is an unreasonable search and seizure. The cost of having one place their finger on a piece of pad compared to the unknown identity of an individual is greatly outweighed.

          Completely agree with 40cal.

          K9

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          • #6
            Originally posted by K9 Police
            Completely agree with 40cal.

            K9
            Thanks, I was looking for real world use, and you two provided it for me. As I can see how it could be mis-used, there is obviously a great benefit to having it.

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            • #7
              if i am not mistaken, does california at least take 1 print for
              issuance of a drivers license, and may be the only state to issue
              fake ones to celebritys ???




              www.schackdaddy.com
              " if you talk in your sleep, don't mention my name....
              " if you walk in your sleep, forget where you came....

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              • #8
                Originally posted by MNCopper
                Thanks, I was looking for real world use, and you two provided it for me. As I can see how it could be mis-used, there is obviously a great benefit to having it.
                HUH? what? miss-used....like bashing it over a suspects head ok that "might" fall into missuse...but I um really cant imagine it (being the finger print scanner) missused.
                Happy to be here proud to serve

                "Well it appears this lock does not accept american express."

                Never trust fire fighters to point out a suspect.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by K9 Police
                  Whooaaa...slow down there buddy. If I am issuing a tag and there is no way to ID the individual, I take a index fingerprint to be placed on the tag. It happens a lot, and by no means is an unreasonable search and seizure. The cost of having one place their finger on a piece of pad compared to the unknown identity of an individual is greatly outweighed.

                  Completely agree with 40cal.

                  K9
                  Very well, I stand corrected then.

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                  • #10
                    In U.S. Supreme Court case Hayes v. Florida, the court ruled police can take fingerprints of a suspect at the scene without probable cause or consent, but they may not take the suspect to the station for fingerprinting.

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