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  • Hey could one of the veterans send me a PM? I think I've run into a snag and need some advice.

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    • ................
      Last edited by triniboy05; 07-02-2018, 08:28 PM.
      God never promised that it would be easy, just that he would be there with you every step of the way.

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      • Sorry, had no idea it was off, turned it on now, thanks.

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        • Originally posted by Thedoughboy111 View Post
          Well, that didn't take long. You've been on the job about five minutes and already you've been exposed to the mindset that's destroyed this agency.

          Patrol is about backing up your partners and handling your calls. There are times when you will have no choice but to make an arrest for one vial or one pill of CDS just like there will be times that you will have no choice but to make an arrest for littering, disorderly conduct, open container etc. Your job as a patrolman, however, is to keep those incidences to an absolute minimum. Misdemeanor possession charges and quality of life offenses would be aggressively pursued in an ideal world. Unfortunately, this is not an ideal world - this is Baltimore, Maryland. We do not have room either in the city jail or in the Department of Correction for every junkie, crackhead and scofflaw we encounter. Hence the reason why triple probation and time served are considered par for the course here, assuming your case doesn't get nol prossed at the first appearance.

          When you hear some salty two year "veteran" talk about making a one pill lock up to get out of answering calls what that Officer is really saying is "screw my side partners". By spending the next 6 to 8 hours (supposedly) packaging and processing that Officer is leaving his fellow Officers exposed. When the call comes out for an in-progress robbery, burglary, cutting, domestic assault, mental case etc you now have one less Officer on the street to back the unit that has to handle that call. I've seen Officers forced to respond to in-progress violent felonies alone because half the shift was out of service on legitimate calls (child abuse, rape, shooting etc) while the other half was humping out. Eventually somebody will get killed because of this and then the blame game will start.

          This department is plagued by burn out cases and people who view themselves as ghetto super heroes. When you hit the streets look up their arrest history, it's hilarious. Arrest after arrest for failure to obey, one bag of weed, driving on suspended etc. Note the arrests that aren't there for the most part: crimes against persons and property with a real victim.

          A word of advice, if you make it through the Academy be sure to spend as much time on foot as possible. Get to know the people on your post. Not just the criminals but also the retirees and the working people. Most of the information you get from junkies or other street criminals is self serving, incomplete, delusional or to some degree dishonest. From a legal perspective 99% of it is garbage. From a practical perspective it's about 95% garbage - information you already know or too vague to help you. Sometimes you get good information but not often. Your tax payers, on the other hand, know more than you think. Equally important, they usually don't have a reason to be dishonest and their minds aren't clouded by insanity or various chemicals. You'll be amazed just how much good intelligence you'll get from business owners and home owners if you take the time to get to know them and actually provide them with decent service when they call versus coding everything out. Learning their names is big. It shows that you actually care. If you're a good Officer and you build that relationship you'll have people tell you things they won't tell any other Officer or Detective. That's how serious crimes like homicide get solved.

          Anyway, I'm going to get off my soapbox now. Happy holidays.
          That's the mindset that is destroying this agency? Really? Officer's making one pill lockups? No, it's not. It is the lack of leadership and a city hall that doesn't back up it's police. That is what is destroying this agency. Everybody takes the one pill lockups sometimes, the petty arrests. Sometimes, they just gotta go, every cop in Baltimore knows that. Remember, the law's the law. As far as receiving credible information from tax-payers, I've yet to see that, most likely due to the fact that I have never worked an area that had any tax payers in the five years I've worked here.

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          • Originally posted by TGYNYY View Post
            That's the mindset that is destroying this agency? Really? Officer's making one pill lockups? No, it's not. It is the lack of leadership and a city hall that doesn't back up it's police. That is what is destroying this agency. Everybody takes the one pill lockups sometimes, the petty arrests. Sometimes, they just gotta go, every cop in Baltimore knows that. Remember, the law's the law. As far as receiving credible information from tax-payers, I've yet to see that, most likely due to the fact that I have never worked an area that had any tax payers in the five years I've worked here.
            Consistently making petty arrests for the specific purpose of not handling the calls on your post or in your sector is putting yourself ahead of everyone else in your squad and it is absolutely what is killing this agency. Are there times when petty lock ups are justified? Of course. That being said, when the same person gets a disorderly or one pill lock consistently on Charlie shift or at the beginning of Adam shift and then proceeds to camp out in the district and ECU we have a problem. Same thing for Officers whose arrest nearly every suspended operator they encounter. Look at what the OP said. Other Police Officers are coming up to him and saying that when they go back to patrol they're going to refuse to act like patrol and instead make sure that they're 10-7 all day. On what planet is this acceptable? This isn't a case of people that "just gotta go" this is a case of people who don't want to work. The result is that other Officers, myself included, get stuck handling Officer one way's post to include the inevitable cuttings, shootings and disturbances that arise because no one is minding the store. The lack of leadership comes in when folks with this mindset get promoted into the supervisory ranks and take a seat at the agency's controls. The fact that there are Sergeants and above who allow this type of behavior doesn't relieve the individual Officer of his responsibility to do the right thing and stay 10-8 wherever possible.
            Last edited by Thedoughboy111; 12-28-2014, 01:09 AM.

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            • I don't think enforcing the law is what erodes a police agency.

              This sounds like a problem with your shift that the shift officers can easily address and if necessary the supervisors can address.

              Otherwise it sounds like police doing their job and some humps complaining because they don't want to do work under the guise of "being in service for the BIG call".

              Maybe I'm wrong...an outside perspective.

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              • -----------
                Last edited by StoneBone718; 03-29-2017, 01:06 PM.

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                • Originally posted by Name Taken View Post
                  I don't think enforcing the law is what erodes a police agency.

                  Otherwise it sounds like police doing their job and some humps complaining because they don't want to do work under the guise of "being in service for the BIG call".
                  Numbers for the sake of numbers policing, the nonsensical philosophy that regards an arrest for one pill of scramble dope as being just as valuable and effective as an arrest for aggravated assault or burglary.

                  At the end of the day the junkie you arrested is still addicted to heroin and there still aren't enough treatment beds to rehabilitate him or jail space to house him. This assumes, of course, that your case ever comes to trial since about 1/3 of the cases get dismissed out of hand because the alleged CDS was never analyzed due to the enormous flood of misdemeanor CDS arrests. It's gotten to the point where I've seen Judges lecture the ASAs and Officers in court about this very issue. Zero tolerance policing is a complete and utter failure. The public knows it, the courts know it and any Police Officer who's honest with himself knows it. With the very limited resources we have available to us the ability to prioritize is critical. Unfortunately too many Officers refuse to do so.

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                  • I guess I'd have an ethical problem with what you are saying as well.

                    So what you do do. Do you not approach suspicous subjects and just over look their blatant violations of the law? Do you take the pill off of the shoplifter that was detained and throw it away?

                    On a pat down or consent do you just over look the contraband? Do you take and it toss it down a drain? Do you submit it and get a summons for the guy instead of arresting him? Is taking 2 hours later to a summons prepared still the same as "sluffing a useless arrest"?

                    As an officer and as a supervisor I have a problem with officers A) Doing nothing and neglecting their duty to investigate B) Playing the other two parts of the 3 party system and decide what is a legal amount of heroin to carry and what the penalty is C) Potentially confiscating evidence and not handling it properly D) Not documenting criminal offenses

                    So basically you are either going to sit in your car and do nothing all shift and wait for "the big one" to come in or you advocate neglecting your duty as a police officer and possibly discarding evidence against department policy

                    I don't want to be on the stand when you get "Johnny User" with a felony amount and the defense begins to ask you how many times you've stopped him, taken evidence, and what happened to it before because you let him slip 3 times on other "pill" charges.

                    Not saying everyone needs to get arrested. But contraband should be taken, submitted, and he be charged. Rather or not it gets tested on time is not on me.

                    No offense but it just sounds like excuses. I know that 80% of DUI arrests aren't going to end in jail time or a conviction. But myself and my officers better be making that arrest. Heck the same could be said for DV cases of assault. Nothing is going to happen in court so do you bother or just it go? Slippery slope when you start to justify your inactions on others people's inactions.

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                    • Originally posted by Name Taken View Post
                      I guess I'd have an ethical problem with what you are saying as well.
                      And I have an ethical problem with the way many of these arrests occur. To say that the probable cause involved is dubious would be charitable. The majority of these arrests would never occur to begin with if the Officers involved were following the rules.

                      I'm actually looking forward to body cameras. My method of policing won't change, not one bit. I don't do anything on patrol that I wouldn't want broadcast on the evening news. Others however will see their arrest numbers plummet. They have no idea how to Police properly and once the shortcuts they used to use are denied to them they'll be paralyzed. I fully expect drug arrests to drop by at least half if body cameras make it into widespread circulation.

                      And that's all I have to say on the subject.
                      Last edited by Thedoughboy111; 12-28-2014, 08:00 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by Thedoughboy111 View Post
                        And I have an ethical problem with searches that are conducted without probable cause in order to make arrests with no legal foundation so that useless Officers who are legends in their own minds can avoid responding to calls that involve an actual victim. The fact that someone who has the gaunt, emaciated appearance of a drug addict is walking down a street where drug sales are known to occur (and let's be honest, in Baltimore that's about 40% of the City) does not, in and of itself, give an Officer the legal right to detain that person and go through his pockets and rifle through his possessions.

                        Many of these arrests are complete and utter garbage - legally, constitutionally, procedurally. Should this Department actually decide to require every Officer to wear a body camera and to record their activity on the street I fully expect drug arrests to drop by 75% or more. Either that or the number of misconduct cases brought against individual Officers will skyrocket as soon as the defense attorneys get around to reviewing the video.

                        I'm actually looking forward to body cameras. My method of policing won't change, not one bit. I don't do anything on patrol that I wouldn't want broadcast on the evening news. Others however will see their arrest numbers plummet. They have no idea how to Police properly and once the shortcuts they used to use are denied to them they'll be paralyzed.

                        And that's all I have to say on the subject.


                        So not a complete re-direct to the topic. Obviously no one here condones illegal searches but that is not the stance your took originally. You just said officers shouldn't be out of service making what you perceive to be petty lock ups.

                        Care to reply to the rest of my question? Do you ignore the pills, toss them, take them and submit them then get a summons? Just sit and hope you get sent to a call for service on the big murder call all night?

                        In the 40% of the city which you claim to be a drug zone there has to be an open air market. In about 15 mins of watching you can develop PC. What you see is not the same as what I see and wont be the same as what a seasoned drug cop see's.

                        Of course no one is for "shaking down" junkies...but at las that wasn't what your stance or the topic started on.

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                        • Originally posted by Name Taken View Post

                          Care to reply to the rest of my question? Do you ignore the pills, toss them, take them and submit them then get a summons? Just sit and hope you get sent to a call for service on the big murder call all night?
                          All CDS recovered is handled in accordance with the General Orders.

                          As for the second part of your question, I manage my post and handle my calls. When I'm not otherwise occupied I target career criminals and track down wanted fugitives - and my arrests reflect this. I don't have to hope to be dispatched to a murder or any other serious part I crime because we get at least one per shift every single day.
                          Last edited by Thedoughboy111; 12-28-2014, 08:35 PM.

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                          • I don't expect someone to post on a public forum they are breaking policy but if you are handling things properly I don't see how you can throw mud at others who are doing the same.

                            Oh well....I think many here got what I was saying.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Name Taken View Post
                              I don't expect someone to post on a public forum they are breaking policy but if you are handling things properly I don't see how you can throw mud at others who are doing the same.

                              Oh well....I think many here got what I was saying.
                              Taken, clearly he is supercop, there's no debating him. I would however enjoy to look up his arrest viewer and see how many wanted fugitives and VROs he's putting away.

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                              • ................
                                Last edited by triniboy05; 07-02-2018, 08:28 PM.
                                God never promised that it would be easy, just that he would be there with you every step of the way.

                                Comment

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