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  • Uninsured Vehicle

    This question is in regards to running tags via an MDT or similar system. I regularly see the Insurance Inquiries and the Insurance Pick-Up orders. When I get the Pick-Up orders, there is still insurance information showing in the record. I still take the tags and cite for driving on suspended tags but is there a way to tell from the MVA record that the car is no longer insured? I'd love to cite for driving an uninsured vehicle but the 28 always returns the insurer and policy number. What am I missing?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Taylor1430 View Post
    This question is in regards to running tags via an MDT or similar system. I regularly see the Insurance Inquiries and the Insurance Pick-Up orders. When I get the Pick-Up orders, there is still insurance information showing in the record. I still take the tags and cite for driving on suspended tags but is there a way to tell from the MVA record that the car is no longer insured? I'd love to cite for driving an uninsured vehicle but the 28 always returns the insurer and policy number. What am I missing?
    The phone number to call the MVA Insurance Compliance Division or just do what I do: call the insurance company and ask them.

    edit: re read what you asked and the MVA won't really have an answer. They'll just say yea it suspended still and they owe yada yada before we unsuspend them (just dealt with that situation last week). Best bet, would be the phone call
    Last edited by fedguy889; 08-31-2008, 07:51 AM.
    Dispatch, we have a 9-11, Armed Robbery in progress. Seay's Surplus Store, corner People's Drive and 124th Street.

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    • #3
      Yeah there are 3 different insurance things that I've seen.

      Inquiry (no action).
      Compulsary Violation (laspse in insurance...17-101 I think).
      MSP Take pick up insurance.


      For the last one and even the 2nd you can call MVA and they will give you the dollar amount that's owed (great for the PC). To find out if that person has insurance like it's been suggested call the insurance angecy. The issue sometimes is if an attorney puts you on the stand obviously the geico person isnt going to show up to say "yup they didnt have insurance" and you MORE or less wrote a "hear say" citation. Not a common defense that I've heard of but I'm sure someone could pull it off.

      Pick up orders per our policy needs to be verified meaning you have to call MVA.


      I did have something pop up the other day for those in the know. It was tags suspended pick up order for MSP. I'm assuming it's something like they did not get a repair order signed off. I've seen flags for that with the numbers following being a SERO number but I've never seen a pick up order for them. How would one verify that or is that something just the state police are privy to take?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Name Taken View Post
        Yeah there are 3 different insurance things that I've seen.

        Inquiry (no action).
        Compulsary Violation (laspse in insurance...17-101 I think).
        MSP Take pick up insurance.


        For the last one and even the 2nd you can call MVA and they will give you the dollar amount that's owed (great for the PC). To find out if that person has insurance like it's been suggested call the insurance angecy. The issue sometimes is if an attorney puts you on the stand obviously the geico person isnt going to show up to say "yup they didnt have insurance" and you MORE or less wrote a "hear say" citation. Not a common defense that I've heard of but I'm sure someone could pull it off.

        Pick up orders per our policy needs to be verified meaning you have to call MVA.


        I did have something pop up the other day for those in the know. It was tags suspended pick up order for MSP. I'm assuming it's something like they did not get a repair order signed off. I've seen flags for that with the numbers following being a SERO number but I've never seen a pick up order for them. How would one verify that or is that something just the state police are privy to take?
        The only pick-up orders that have to be verified (unless your department policy states otherwise) is MSP pickup orders. They must be confirmed prior to confiscating the tags by calling MSP's ASED section Monday-Friday during business hours. During all other times you technically can not take the tags. Insurance pick-up orders are not through MSP and technically do not need to be verified (again unless your department policy states otherwise).

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        • #5
          You cant use just a compulsary violation flag as your PC tho correct? Ive always been told that in order to use that as your PC it must have a pick up order in addition to the compulsary violation.

          Correct if im wrong

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          • #6
            Thanks for the replies. I will have to start calling to verify insurance then. The problem is I work perm midnights so getting in touch with somebody at 3 am is a whole different issue.

            One of my pet peeves is people driving without insurance...this is why I would like to cite for it if available. If tags are suspended, they get a cite. If there is a pick up order, they get a cite and the tags yanked (with subsequent tow).


            Originally posted by Ad422 View Post
            You cant use just a compulsary violation flag as your PC tho correct? Ive always been told that in order to use that as your PC it must have a pick up order in addition to the compulsary violation.

            Correct if im wrong
            You are correct...a flag is just a flag. Now, when it says tags are suspended, whether it is from insurance or for VEIP, you have PC for the stop. I get a ton of stops when the only violation is a suspension for VEIP. Keep in mind, that it will say the tags are suspended...you can't stop just off of flags or warning letters mailed. Your MDT will tell you they are suspended and the date of suspension.

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            • #7
              Anytime I get insurance pick up orders and they can't provide proof of insurance I write for driving uninsured vehicle and take the tags. If they have insurance at the time of stop I tell them to bring that paper work with them and the citation gets nol prosed.
              Both of you shut up...I can only listen to one person lie to me at a time!

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              • #8
                I've been told that we have to verify Suspended for Insurance pick ups but I could be wrong.

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                • #9
                  As touched upon above, the verification procedure is wonderful if you are operating within their office hours. Otherwise, you are just to let them go?

                  I don't. To achieve a pick-up order status requires gross negligence and ignorance. I have seen P/U orders several years old. Of course before the P/U order there are inquiries. It takes several months for these investigations to conclude and result in an P/U order. To have a P/U order takes some time; and a lengthy lapse of insurance!

                  With that, I was informed by the MVA Staff that even though the insurance is current at the time of the stop the violation may be for a lapse in coverage much earlier. The violation is still legit. The MVA's investigation still found there to be a violation.


                  To drive among us without insurance is extremely risky. Think of how many hit-and-runs are result of no insurance. Those are now damages heaped onto the victim, they must now bear the financial burden of someone else misdeeds. Also creates a lot of happy ambulance chasing lawyers, just waiting to sue. Makes all of our rates go up.

                  If there is a P/U order (sans departmental policy, though how do you verify per policy if you need verification not during office hours?) they get tags taken and returned to MVA in a timely manner, issued at least a citation for Uninsured Vehicle (which depending on the case will get bumped down to failure to maintain proper coverage bla bla bla in court), I get a print out of the registration information stating the P/U order and I can not let that vehicle be driven away knowing no insurance. It will be towed.

                  It can be an expensive violation, mostly the towing fees. It could be much worse had they been in need of coverage but didn't have it. The law requires it for a reason. I always assure them it is for their welfare, too!
                  Last edited by AgentFox; 09-03-2008, 10:21 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AgentFox View Post
                    As touched upon above, the verification procedure is wonderful if you are operating within their office hours. Otherwise, you are just to let them go?

                    I don't. To achieve a pick-up order status requires gross negligence and ignorance. I have seen P/U orders several years old. Of course before the P/U order there are inquiries. It takes several months for these investigations to conclude and result in an P/U order. To have a P/U order takes some time; and a lengthy lapse of insurance!
                    Good. That's why insurance pick-up orders don't technically have to be verified. I think some departments require their officers to verify to CYA but in reality the office is never open when you would need to verify the P/U order.

                    On a side note I would not recommend practicing this with MSP pick-up orders because they are not nearly as accurate as insurance pick-up orders. They do have to be verified unlike insurance pick-up orders. I know of at least two departments off the top of my head that have been sued for wrongfully confiscating tags since they failed to verify the pick-up order.
                    Last edited by Stare; 09-03-2008, 04:49 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Stare View Post
                      On a side note I would not recommend practicing this with MSP pick-up orders because they are not nearly as accurate as insurance pick-up orders. They do have to be verified unlike insurance pick-up orders. I know of at least two departments off the top of my head that have been sued in for not verifying MSP pick-up orders.
                      Thats good to know, cause I know we've never verified a pick up order (except for ins). Though I some times do call Glen Burnie Barracks and ask about it once in awhile. Do you have a good number to call to verify the NON ins PU orders?
                      Dispatch, we have a 9-11, Armed Robbery in progress. Seay's Surplus Store, corner People's Drive and 124th Street.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by fedguy889 View Post
                        Thats good to know, cause I know we've never verified a pick up order (except for ins). Though I some times do call Glen Burnie Barracks and ask about it once in awhile. Do you have a good number to call to verify the NON ins PU orders?
                        Yes, when I am at work tomorrow I will get it for you. There is a police only phone number. Or you can just call any barrack, identify yourself, and they should be able to give it to you.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stare View Post
                          Yes, when I am at work tomorrow I will get it for you. There is a police only phone number. Or you can just call any barrack, identify yourself, and they should be able to give it to you.
                          I think one of the Glen Burnie Sgts gave it to me once, but sadly he retired this week. Feel free to PM it to me if you wish.
                          Dispatch, we have a 9-11, Armed Robbery in progress. Seay's Surplus Store, corner People's Drive and 124th Street.

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