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  • Deadly weapons on college campuses

    In the wake of the VT shootings, there has been a lot of talk about concealed and non-concealed deadly weapons on campus. I know there was a article in the paper at EKU recently by the police chief stating that any deadly weapons on campus was against the law, including hunting rifles, and that the minimum charge was a Class A Misdemeanor and up to a Class D Felony. He said that many people bring hunting rifles to school and leave them in their car but that ignorance of the law was no excuse. From my understanding of the law, postsecondary educational institutions are not covered under the concealed deadly weapons law KRS 237.110, but like businesses, can prohibit you from carrying there. However, it is not illegal per se as there is no penalty specified, unless you are caught and then refuse to leave which would be trespassing. So where are they coming up with it being a misdemeanor or felony to bring one on a college campus? How can they also prohibit you from carrying a weapon in your personal vehicle? If you are a student, I'm sure you could/would face disciplinary actions but for the average citizen? Anyone had any dealings with this, either civilian or law enforcement?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    In NC it is a class 1 felony. GS14-269.2(b)

    Did possess or carry about his/her person a weapon to wit (gun, rifle, pistol, or other firearm on any kind). While on said property belonging to (name of school)

    also GS 14-269.2(c) Aid and Abet class 1 felony

    hope this answers your question

    a College Po-Po
    If you can't be honest with yourself who can you be honest with.

    Comment


    • #3
      I appreciate the response but NC law does not apply here
      Last edited by automagrt; 05-12-2007, 06:12 PM. Reason: spelling

      Comment


      • #4
        AUTOMART-here is what you are looking for...

        Units of state and local governments and postsecondary education facilities (colleges, universities, technical schools and community colleges) have the authority to limit the carrying of concealed weapons on property owned or controlled by them (KRS 237.115). You should check with units of state and local government as well as postsecondary education facilities prior to carrying a concealed weapon on their property.

        KRS 527.070 prohibits unlawful possession (whether carried openly or concealed) of a weapon on school property, except for certain specified exceptions. KRS 244.125 prohibits loaded firearms (concealed or otherwise) in places where alcohol is sold by the drink, except for certain specified exceptions.
        DISCLAIMER: All opinions are mine, they do not reflect the opinions or position of my employing agency nor do they reflect any position of my agency.

        Comment


        • #5
          KRS 237.115 only says they have the authority to control, but doesn't list any criminal penalty and under section 3 it says that unless otherwise specified in the KRS, no criminal penalty applies. KRS 527.070 specifically states that it does not apply to postsecondary institutions. If you can legally carry a gun in your car at a regular school, as long as you don't brandish it, and employers cannot prohibit you from having a weapon in your vehicle in their parking lot, I can't see how a university can prohibit you from keeping it in your personal vehicle.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by automagrt View Post
            KRS 237.115 only says they have the authority to control, but doesn't list any criminal penalty and under section 3 it says that unless otherwise specified in the KRS, no criminal penalty applies. KRS 527.070 specifically states that it does not apply to postsecondary institutions. If you can legally carry a gun in your car at a regular school, as long as you don't brandish it, and employers cannot prohibit you from having a weapon in your vehicle in their parking lot, I can't see how a university can prohibit you from keeping it in your personal vehicle.
            I am pretty sure your interpretation of the law is correct according to KRS and KY CCDW.

            I have taken the CCDW class in KY and am waiting on my CCDW license to arrive in the mail, and your interpretation of the law was what was taught in my CCDW class.

            I don't see how the police chief that you mentioned can make the statement he made. What agency is he the chief of? EKU campus police? Some other agency?

            Can anyone clear this up???
            Last edited by KYwildcat07; 05-13-2007, 08:46 PM.
            Success is failure turned inside out
            The silver tint of the clouds of doubt
            And you never can tell how close you are,
            It may be near when it seems so far;
            So stick to the fight when your hardest hit,
            It's when things seem worst that you must not quit!

            Comment


            • #7
              A side question to this discussion:

              In the state of KY you don't have to possess a CCDW license to carry a gun in the glovebox or console of your vehicle. If the gun is concealed anywhere else inside the vehicle you must have a CCDW license.

              Is this statement correct? I am pretty sure it is, but just wanted to clear this up.
              Last edited by KYwildcat07; 05-13-2007, 08:39 PM.
              Success is failure turned inside out
              The silver tint of the clouds of doubt
              And you never can tell how close you are,
              It may be near when it seems so far;
              So stick to the fight when your hardest hit,
              It's when things seem worst that you must not quit!

              Comment


              • #8
                Auto---This statement is wrong for a school
                "If you can legally carry a gun in your car at a regular school, as long as you don't brandish it"
                GO To any public school and you will clearly see signs saying that you are on "school property and vehicles are subject to search"
                Also "unless otherwise specified in the KRS, no criminal penalty applies" is stating that nothing is specified but if someone clearly has a sign on their property then you fall under the KRS for Concealed weapon. I have a No Weapons sign on my kitchen door and front door before you enter my home, this is a joke but I CAN LEGALLY enforce that if I wish and you fall under the KRS Concealed Weapon Law because I Posted it. Now, majority of Buisness/whatever will 9/10 tell you to lock it up or leave if you are caught. As far as the glove box goes, that is correct you can have it there but you should really tell the Officer before you go reaching into your box to retrieve something and you can have it in the trunk too, technically it could be considered "concealed" but I would rather you have it in the trunk that Glove box and no legal court will convict you for that! When you are stopped and your tag is ran, we will know as soon as we run it that you have a CCDW from your Owner of Vehicle Registration anyway, but you better tell us if you are armed ASAP. 1st wrds out of yor mouth should be that you have a CCDW and you are armed.
                DISCLAIMER: All opinions are mine, they do not reflect the opinions or position of my employing agency nor do they reflect any position of my agency.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by KYwildcat07 View Post
                  I am pretty sure your interpretation of the law is correct according to KRS and KY CCDW.

                  I have taken the CCDW class in KY and am waiting on my CCDW license to arrive in the mail, and your interpretation of the law was what was taught in my CCDW class.

                  I don't see how the police chief that you mentioned can make the statement he made. What agency is he the chief of? EKU campus police? Some other agency?

                  Can anyone clear this up???
                  Crackdown on campus crime

                  Officials look for new precautions in wake of VT tragedy

                  By: Laura Kersey

                  Posted: 5/3/07

                  In the wake of the Virginia Tech shooting, universities around the nation are taking extra steps and precautions to ensure student safety.

                  And Eastern is not an exception.

                  "In the wake of…events at Virginia Tech, administrators from all segments of campus have been meeting to review our safety-related policies and procedures," said Eastern President Joanne Glasser at a Board of Regents meeting. "Certainly, we will continue to explore any and all ways we can enhance campus safety."

                  Cho Seung-Hui, the gunman in the Virginia Tech shootings, has revived safety concerns of students around the country concerning weapons possession on university campuses.

                  Only two reports of weapons possession have been reported on Eastern's campus since Aug. 2006. One incident was on Sept. 29 and another on March 25. Both men were arrested for carrying a concealed deadly weapon.

                  The Eastern weapons policy states that all persons are prohibited from possessing firearms, explosives or other deadly weapons on the campus of Eastern Kentucky University.

                  Those exempted are sworn peace officers employed by the university's Police Department, sworn peace officers employed by other public agencies on campus for education or duty, or members of the U.S. Army Reserve Officer Training Corps when necessary for the purposes of education and marksmanship training.

                  Any person violating the policy may be subject to arrest for carrying a concealed deadly weapon or for criminal trespass if the weapon is not concealed.

                  Most Eastern arrests under this policy are usually made only when police are made aware of a person carrying the firearm or if the firearm is found under other circumstances. Eastern Police Chief Mark Welker said many students who hunt often arrive with firearms on campus, thinking a concealed deadly weapons permit will prevent them from arrest or university disciplinary actions.

                  Students, Welker said, are often unaware that a Kentucky state-issued permit to carry a concealed deadly weapon is also not valid on campus. Violating the policy can be considered a Class-A misdemeanor or a Class-D felony, resulting in a penalty of incarceration up to one year, or one to five years.

                  Yet, Welker said ignorance is not an excuse.

                  "If you have a gun on campus, you're subject to arrest whether or not you're aware of the policy," Welker said.

                  Along with enhanced firearm security has come precautions in student stalking.

                  Virginia Tech gunman Cho had a reported stalking incident on the campus in 2005, almost two years before the shooting occurred.

                  In Nov. and Dec. 2005, two women complained to the Virginia Tech campus police that they had received calls and computer messages from Cho, but neither pressed charges, Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum told Fox News.

                  Kentucky currently has two degrees of stalking for which a person can be formally charged.

                  A person is guilty of stalking in the second degree when they intentionally stalk another person and make an explicit or implicit threat with the intent to place that person in reasonable fear of sexual contact, serious physical injury or death. This is considered a Class-A misdemeanor and can receive a penalty of incarceration up to one year.

                  First degree stalking meets all the criteria of the first degree, except it makes a reasonable fear of 'serious physical injury.' This is considered a Class-D felony and can receive a penalty of incarceration from one to five years.

                  Since Jan. 2005, there have not been any incidents of stalking on Eastern's campus. Welker said this is often because these incidents are caught in the early stages and filed as harassment and harassing communications.

                  "Does (stalking) happen on campus? I don't know. I suspect it might, but people use the term pretty freely," Welker said. "Stalking is not a common occurrence. Typically, it's filed as harassment."

                  Most importantly, Welker said, students should report incidents to campus police as soon as possible to prevent more serious events from occurring.

                  "We would encourage them to contact us immediately if they're having problems with relationships with another individual," Welker said. "We'll talk with them and see what they're options are."

                  Depending on the situation, Eastern police will speak with the victim and decide on the best scenario of action, such as providing escorts and personal security for the students if needed.

                  President Glasser assured the Board of Regents that the most important issue of Eastern is the students and employees.

                  "The safety of our students, faculty and staff has always been a paramount concern," Glasser said. "I think we can all learn from the Virginia Tech incident."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KYwildcat07 View Post
                    A side question to this discussion:

                    In the state of KY you don't have to possess a CCDW license to carry a gun in the glovebox or console of your vehicle. If the gun is concealed anywhere else inside the vehicle you must have a CCDW license.

                    Is this statement correct? I am pretty sure it is, but just wanted to clear this up.
                    http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/KRS/527-00/020.PDF

                    http://162.114.92.72/COA/2003-CA-000034.pdf

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by automagrt View Post
                      In the wake of the VT shootings, there has been a lot of talk about concealed and non-concealed deadly weapons on campus. I know there was a article in the paper at EKU recently by the police chief stating that any deadly weapons on campus was against the law, including hunting rifles, and that the minimum charge was a Class A Misdemeanor and up to a Class D Felony. He said that many people bring hunting rifles to school and leave them in their car but that ignorance of the law was no excuse. From my understanding of the law, postsecondary educational institutions are not covered under the concealed deadly weapons law KRS 237.110, but like businesses, can prohibit you from carrying there. However, it is not illegal per se as there is no penalty specified, unless you are caught and then refuse to leave which would be trespassing. So where are they coming up with it being a misdemeanor or felony to bring one on a college campus? How can they also prohibit you from carrying a weapon in your personal vehicle? If you are a student, I'm sure you could/would face disciplinary actions but for the average citizen? Anyone had any dealings with this, either civilian or law enforcement?

                      Thanks.

                      The Police Chief at EKU is correct on this matter AutoMagRT...

                      A Kentucky CDWL is, pursuant to KRS 237.115, void on the property of postsecondary institutions (assuming they have chosen to exercise their right to enforce said restriction).

                      As such, whether or not you possess a CDWL makes absolutely no difference; you're guilty of carrying a concealed deadly weapon.

                      If the weapon was not concealed, then you're guilty of criminal trespass (1st degree in buildings, 3rd degree on grounds)...KRS 511.060 & 511.080
                      Last edited by jlells01; 05-13-2007, 09:53 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        jlells01.....

                        1.) so it was the EKU Campus Police Chief

                        2.) as long as the gun is in the actual "glove compartment" it is not considered concealed and therefore no CCDWL is required
                        Success is failure turned inside out
                        The silver tint of the clouds of doubt
                        And you never can tell how close you are,
                        It may be near when it seems so far;
                        So stick to the fight when your hardest hit,
                        It's when things seem worst that you must not quit!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kycop28 View Post
                          Auto---This statement is wrong for a school
                          "If you can legally carry a gun in your car at a regular school, as long as you don't brandish it"
                          GO To any public school and you will clearly see signs saying that you are on "school property and vehicles are subject to search"
                          Also "unless otherwise specified in the KRS, no criminal penalty applies" is stating that nothing is specified but if someone clearly has a sign on their property then you fall under the KRS for Concealed weapon. I have a No Weapons sign on my kitchen door and front door before you enter my home, this is a joke but I CAN LEGALLY enforce that if I wish and you fall under the KRS Concealed Weapon Law because I Posted it. Now, majority of Buisness/whatever will 9/10 tell you to lock it up or leave if you are caught. As far as the glove box goes, that is correct you can have it there but you should really tell the Officer before you go reaching into your box to retrieve something and you can have it in the trunk too, technically it could be considered "concealed" but I would rather you have it in the trunk that Glove box and no legal court will convict you for that! When you are stopped and your tag is ran, we will know as soon as we run it that you have a CCDW from your Owner of Vehicle Registration anyway, but you better tell us if you are armed ASAP. 1st wrds out of yor mouth should be that you have a CCDW and you are armed.
                          About the bolded statement...... as a soon to be LEO (I start the KSP Academy in Sept) I totally understand where you are coming from. I would assume that reaching into a glovebox with a loaded gun in it before telling the officer that it's there would be a great way to get his gun stuck in your face. I would imagine that would be a bad situation. Not to mention they teach exactly what you said in the CCDWL class. Hands on the steering wheel, "officer I have a CCDW and I am armed. The gun is in the ....."
                          Success is failure turned inside out
                          The silver tint of the clouds of doubt
                          And you never can tell how close you are,
                          It may be near when it seems so far;
                          So stick to the fight when your hardest hit,
                          It's when things seem worst that you must not quit!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jlells01 View Post
                            The Police Chief at EKU is correct on this matter AutoMagRT...

                            A Kentucky CDWL is, pursuant to KRS 237.115, void on the property of postsecondary institutions (assuming they have chosen to exercise their right to enforce said restriction).

                            As such, whether or not you possess a CDWL makes absolutely no difference; you're guilty of carrying a concealed deadly weapon.

                            If the weapon was not concealed, then you're guilty of criminal trespass (1st degree in buildings, 3rd degree on grounds)...KRS 511.060 & 511.080
                            Then wouldn't it vary from campus to campus?

                            Some campus' it would be perfectly fine to carry the gun concealed, while on other campus' it wouldn't, and still on other campus' it would be perfectly fine to have the gun in your vehicle but not on your person.

                            It will vary from campus to campus, depending on their own institution's restrictions? Correct?
                            Success is failure turned inside out
                            The silver tint of the clouds of doubt
                            And you never can tell how close you are,
                            It may be near when it seems so far;
                            So stick to the fight when your hardest hit,
                            It's when things seem worst that you must not quit!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sorry, was not notified that there were any responses since my last post. In regards to being charged with criminal trespassing for having a CDW at a business or private place where it is posted that you can't have one, KRS 231.110 (17) says "Carrying of a concealed weapon, or ammunition, or both in a location specified in this subsection by a license holder shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial from the premises or removal from the premises, and, if an employee of an employer, disciplinary
                              measures by the employer." So if it's not a criminal act, how could it be criminal trespassing?

                              In regards to being allowed to have a gun in your car at a K-12 school, I've never seen a sign that says your car is subject to search but I believe you, and that makes sense.

                              As for college campuses, 237.110 says that they may control the posession of deadly weapons (it doesn't say that the CDW is void) but I still fail to see what they could charge you with unless you refuse to leave, in which case it would be criminal trespassing. Is there any case law on this? And as KYwildcat07 points out, it would vary from campus to campus although I'd be surprised if any campuses allow the carrying of weapons.

                              Comment

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