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Looking for Clarification for Reserve Police

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  • Looking for Clarification for Reserve Police

    I am a Reserve Deputy and I was discussing the topic of concealed carry with one of my fellow reservists. On the application when I applied was a ruling from a 1981 KS attorney general that said reserve officers can't carry concealed off-duty. My fellow reservist says that a more recent federal decision trumps that ruling. Honestly I'm not sure and don't want to take any chances.

    The only recent ruling I could find was this:

    http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us
    In summary, an employee of a city, county or state law enforcement agency who is not authorized to perform law enforcement duties does not fall within the definition of "police officer" or "law enforcement officer" under the Kansas Law Enforcement Training Act when that employee works as a volunteer for the same agency during the employee's off-duty hours as a reserve police or law enforcement officer and in the employee's volunteer capacity works to prevent or detect crime and enforce criminal or traffic laws. Whether certain acts by a person employed by a city or county solely to perform correctional duties related to jail inmates and the administration and operation of a jail fall within the correctional duties exemption provided by K.S.A. 2000 Supp. 74-5602(e) depend on the specific facts surrounding those acts. The conclusions stated in Attorney General Opinion No. 79-104 are affirmed.
    Basically it found that reserve police are not really law enforcement officers in the truest definition. (This saves small departments from having to pay to have all of their reserves trained by KLETC) If we are not leo's then we can't carry concealed on our ID's right?
    What is Perseverance?
    -Perseverance is commitment, hard work, patience, endurance.
    -Perseverance is being able to bear difficulties calmly and without complaint.
    -PERSEVERANCE IS TRYING AGAIN AND AGAIN.


    BOP - BPA - ICE

  • #2
    I would say this - if you haven't been to the academy and hold a certification that certifies you as a part-time or full-time police officer in the state, then you're not a police officer by statute and thus, not able to carry concealed by HR218.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by NBW791 View Post
      I would say this - if you haven't been to the academy and hold a certification that certifies you as a part-time or full-time police officer in the state, then you're not a police officer by statute and thus, not able to carry concealed by HR218.

      Makes sense to me.

      The part-time academy is only 2 weeks long
      I wonder if I can get them to let me go.
      What is Perseverance?
      -Perseverance is commitment, hard work, patience, endurance.
      -Perseverance is being able to bear difficulties calmly and without complaint.
      -PERSEVERANCE IS TRYING AGAIN AND AGAIN.


      BOP - BPA - ICE

      Comment


      • #4
        State law will trump HR218 as one of HR218's stipulations is state certification and proper commission from your department.

        Here in Oklahoma, if you are full-time certified and commissioned by a police department, you qualify automatically to CCW in all 50 states via HR218. If you are reserve certified and commissioned by a police department, you can still carry under HR218 but your commission card must indicate permission from your Chief for 'off-duty' carry. Non-certified Reserve status officers are not permitted to carry off duty. When you become a reserve in Oklahoma, you have 6 months to get certified or, well, you're done.

        Hope that helps. I'm sure Kansas is similar.
        -918-

        Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness. James 3:18

        Clinging to my guns and religion since 1975

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by -918- View Post
          I'm sure Kansas is similar.
          You don't have to be certified in Kansas to be a reserve. Most departments will get you part time certified, or at least through some equivalent training.

          Comment


          • #6
            At all? Hmm.

            So, part time or reserve certification from the state is not required? Period?

            Reference my post about Oklahoma. You do have 6 months to get certified but you must be agency sponsored and the agency pays for the training. You just gotta get there. You also cannot work by yourself until certified and you cannot work over 110 hours a month with reserve certification.
            -918-

            Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness. James 3:18

            Clinging to my guns and religion since 1975

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by -918- View Post
              So, part time or reserve certification from the state is not required? Period?
              There are only 2 classifications of law enforcement officer that require certification in Kansas- "full-time" and "part-time".

              Reserve, volunteer etc officers who are not compensated are not required to be certified by KLETC or meet POST standards.

              From the Kansas Law Enforcement Training Regulations

              (i) "Part-time" means employment on a regular schedule or employment which requires a minimum number of hours each payroll period, but in any case requiring less than 1,000 hours of law enforcement related work per year.

              "Part-time" officers must complete the 80 hour course.

              www.kletc.org
              ---Cut the red wire---

              Comment


              • #8
                POST certified LEOs can carry concealed

                Originally posted by TheKansan View Post
                On the application when I applied was a ruling from a 1981 KS attorney general that said reserve officers can't carry concealed off-duty.
                If it was on your application for a WYSO Reserve Commission that pretty much states what your Sheriff's opinion and agency policy is. If they are telling you that you are not permitted to carry "off-duty" then the following is probably moot.

                However, I still decided to do a little digging for you. I found your answer in KSA 21-4201- remember, Attorney General Opinions are just that, non-binding legal opinions of an Attorney General- they are not law.

                KSA 21-4201 sets forth who is permitted to carry concealed firearms and then lists those law enforcement officers etc. who are permitted to carry under state law.

                KSA 21-4201(a)(4) which reads "Criminal use of weapons is knowingly... carrying any pistol, revolver or other firearm concealed on one's person except when on the person's land or in the person's abode or fixed place of business;"

                containes several exceptions- including:

                "(6) special deputy sheriffs described in K.S.A. 19-827, and amendments thereto, who have satisfactorily completed the basic course of instruction required for permanent appointment as a part-time law enforcement officer under K.S.A. 74-5607a and amendments thereto."

                In case you were wondering what KSA 12-827 refers to:

                "19-827. A special deputy appointed under K.S.A. 19-805a, and amendments thereto, may receive payment for services rendered and shall have general law enforcement authority throughout the county if such special deputy has satisfactorily completed the basic course of instruction required for permanent appointment as a part-time law enforcement officer under K.S.A. 74-5607a, and amendments thereto. "

                So- it comes down to this. If you are POST certified through KLETC as a "part-time" or "full-time" law enforcement officer you can carry a concealed weapon. If not, you are out of luck.
                ---Cut the red wire---

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's funny that this topic came up now. I was just contacted by the Gardner Public Safety Department a couple days ago to begin the "hiring" process for the reserve program. Does anyone know anything about Gardner's reserve program? I was looking online and saw that there is a part-time academy beginning on Sept 22. If they are just now starting the process (I applied back in march) what are the odds that they actually send their reserves to KLETC? The timing seems too good to be coincidence, but perhaps it's just wishful thinking...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In order to attend KLETC you must be employed either Full or Part-time and on the payroll at least once each pay period, although I do know that some smaller departments have slipped reservists into part-time officer satellite academies held around the state.

                    If KLETC could track everything they have mandated there would be some of those shut down. Similar to the statute that stipulates part-time officers must not work more than 999 hours per year or they have to be evelated to full-time and attend the full-time acadmey, no way does the state or KLETC track that!

                    Comment

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