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  • Htv

    Quick question for you all. I've had a couple of conflicting answers at work from it, so hopefully someone here can clarify.

    If you are behind a vehicle and run a registration check and come to find out the driver is HTV or license suspended, can you stop that vehicle right away, or do you need to catch the driver in a violation before you can initiate a stop? I've had one officer at my dept. tell me that you can pull them over, and another officer tell me you can NOT do it because it may not be the person driving whose lic. is HTV or supended. I was under the impression that you could pull them over without you seeing them commit an infraction...was I wrong?

    Thanks in advance!!!

  • #2
    Originally posted by Jas77 View Post
    Quick question for you all. I've had a couple of conflicting answers at work from it, so hopefully someone here can clarify.

    If you are behind a vehicle and run a registration check and come to find out the driver is HTV or license suspended, can you stop that vehicle right away, or do you need to catch the driver in a violation before you can initiate a stop? I've had one officer at my dept. tell me that you can pull them over, and another officer tell me you can NOT do it because it may not be the person driving whose lic. is HTV or suspended. I was under the impression that you could pull them over without you seeing them commit an infraction...was I wrong?

    Thanks in advance!!!
    We have been told that the stop is valid based on your good faith belief that the person driving is the person in question. Remember a traffic stop is not a detention per-sa. I make stops based on computer hits relatively often and have not had any problems. I try to make sure the person driving at least is somewhat in physical in looks as the perp. Check out the squad room for a thread related to this subject.
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

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    • #3
      Yes, I agree with j706. However, in the county I use to work at. The prosecutor at least wanted the Officer to try to match the description from the BMV to te driver. I.E if the registered owner was a man, but a woman was driving then it would not be the best stop made. If you look at traffic law though, it is reasonable that the registered owner is always driving the car even know common sense tells you that's not always the case.

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      • #4
        It's a good arrest and a felony. The HTV return (or any level DWLS) is PC to stop be car.

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        • #5
          The only problem you may run into is the issue of whether you can articulate you knew the person driving was the owner of the vehicle, hence DWS/HTV. A good attorney will hammer you on it so just be ready if it gets that far...

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          • #6
            Originally posted by oc10spray View Post
            The only problem you may run into is the issue of whether you can articulate you knew the person driving was the owner of the vehicle, hence DWS/HTV. A good attorney will hammer you on it so just be ready if it gets that far...
            You do not have to know the driver is the owner, I don't think the defense would have a case. But I have been wrong before. Don't you just hate defense attorneys?
            "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

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            • #7
              There was a Supreme Court case about two years ago, if I recall correctly, that defended our ability to run license plates for no reason and to act on the return in good faith. Individual prosecutors might be afraid to go to court on it, but we do it all the time at my agency. I have a difficult time understanding how a defense attorney could hammer you as long as the DA stands up to the defense. Good faith stop (or reasonable suspicion for the HTV, if you want to do it as a Terry stop), state law mandates that the driver identify himself to the officer, license check of the driver confirms the crime.

              Now the hard part is just finding a DA that will stand up to the defense...

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              • #8
                It’s good business to have a reason to run a plate-speed, suspicious, equipment violation, etc. If I run a plate, I have a reason (even if it is because the car was going 05 MPH over). Arbitrarily running plates will give the appearance of impropriety and will lead to profiling allegations, no matter what the U.S. Supreme court says.

                The term is articulable suspicion, not reasonable suspicion. Many people outside law enforcement/criminal justice system confuse the concepts of articulable suspicion and probable cause.

                Indiana does not have District Attorneys. An Indiana cop would know that.

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                • #9
                  Sorry, used the term DA more for convenience than for the exact regional technical definition. I assume assistant prosecuting attorney would be more acceptable? DA is just easier to type.

                  I agree with you on having a reason for running the plate, but I was pointing out that it is not strictly necessary per the Supreme Court. I was seeking to point out that an officer running a plate in good faith and moving forward on the information received from the return is well on the legit side of the law.

                  ETA: We just call them "deputy prosecutors" around here, "deputy" being the source of the "D" in my initial post.
                  Last edited by Bringer of Fire; 05-23-2007, 11:25 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Correct on being able to randomly run license plates. Up here, same deal- if the descriptors available match, then that can be used for an investigatory stop. I usually follow to try to get a traffic violation of some sort to sweeten the deal though.

                    One other issue that has come up is on HTVs we are (per Pros.) NOT allowed to write ANY tickets for violations regarding HTV. I guess someone was slick and called and paid the ticket(s) prior to court and as such, that was determined that they paid their 'conviction', and could not be put in double jeopardy in court. So we don't write any citations for anything (which HTVs are usually 4-8 possible cits depending upon what you got)
                    Last edited by OfficerDotCom; 06-05-2007, 06:41 PM. Reason: Offensive language
                    And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.”- Romans 8:28

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                    • #11
                      In the area that I work in this might be considered over stepping the boundaries from the judge. Even theough it is a good stop and arrest the judge is somewhat easier if you do not have something to go with it IE.. infraction of some sort

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by OffDuty View Post
                        Correct on being able to randomly run license plates. Up here, same deal- if the descriptors available match, then that can be used for an investigatory stop. I usually follow to try to get a traffic violation of some sort to sweeten the deal though.

                        One other issue that has come up is on HTVs we are (per Pros.) NOT allowed to write ANY tickets for violations regarding HTV. I guess someone was slick and called and paid the ticket(s) prior to court and as such, that was determined that they paid their 'conviction', and could not be put in double jeopardy in court. So we don't write any citations for anything (which HTVs are usually 4-8 possible cits depending upon what you got) Fu_kers.

                        OK, first of all, why would you write someone a citation for a FELONY instead of taking them right to jail?????? Makes no sense.
                        Why are there so many babies on O.com? Creole, you and your buddy JPSO Recruit help me out on this one....

                        * "Preach always, if necessary, use words!" St Francis of Assisi

                        * Luke Chapter 6, Verses 27-36

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by medic cop View Post
                          In the area that I work in this might be considered over stepping the boundaries from the judge. Even theough it is a good stop and arrest the judge is somewhat easier if you do not have something to go with it IE.. infraction of some sort
                          That's dumb.
                          Why are there so many babies on O.com? Creole, you and your buddy JPSO Recruit help me out on this one....

                          * "Preach always, if necessary, use words!" St Francis of Assisi

                          * Luke Chapter 6, Verses 27-36

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Town Cop I must agree with you that the way our judge is is dumb but what can we do?? This is just like even though you read the Indiana Implied Consent warning to a drunk driver on scene and they consent to take the test if you do not reread it in front of the camera at the jail before the test and ask the questions if they understand and they know what it means he will toss the charge and release the person

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