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  • 12 hour shift schedules....info wanted

    Hey everyone, the rumor mill is running at max. capacity with rumors that our department will be going to 12 hour shifts. Right now, we work 40 hours a week, with revolving days off (ie: Off Mon./Tues., the next week Tues./Wed., etc. when you hit the weekends, you get a three day (Fri.,Sat.,Sun.) then a two day, then a three day (Sat., Sun., Mon.) the it starts over. You can throw in as many weekends as you want, but currently we get three in a row off). This keeps us always at a 40 hour week. My opinion is that they are doing this to reclassify us as true LEOs (univ. department) and thus we fall under the federal law where they can work us some amount over 40 hrs./week and not pay over-time for a certain amount of hours over this.

    Now my understanding is that with 12 hour shifts, there is a way to have a three day weekend off every other weekend. However, I have heard other schedules with different day off rotations. Just wanting some info on those who work 12s, or know how other departments work them. Currently I know that at one time, Carmel, Fishers, and Noblesville were on 12s. Thanks for any info!

  • #2
    We went to 4 on/4 off rotation. That works out to 6 partial weekends in a row (T W T F; W T F S; T F S S; F S S M; S S M T; S M T W) and only 1 week of no weekends off (M T W T). It also gives us 9 extra days off a year as Kelly comp. Our department divvies them out 3 for each bump period (4 month bumps). Its a great shift.
    Originally posted by kontemplerande
    Without Germany, you would not have won World War 2.

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    • #3
      We currently work 12's have get a three day weekend, every other weekend . I will give you the run down of our 2 week pay period. Hopefully it makes sence...Work mon / tues - off wed / thurs - work fri, sat, sun - off mon / tues. work wed / thur then off fri, sat, and sun. Then the pay period startes over. Hope that makes sence, its been a long day...

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      • #4
        Originally posted by 10-15 View Post
        We currently work 12's have get a three day weekend, every other weekend . I will give you the run down of our 2 week pay period. Hopefully it makes sence...Work mon / tues - off wed / thurs - work fri, sat, sun - off mon / tues. work wed / thur then off fri, sat, and sun. Then the pay period startes over. Hope that makes sence, its been a long day...
        We are the same as this. Puts us at 84 hrs a pay period and we get paid straight time for those 4 hours over.
        For the cops out there: You are an adult. If you want to write someone, write them. If you don't want to write someone, then don't write them.

        "Jeff, you are the best cop on this board"-Anonymous Post

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        • #5
          Originally posted by 10-15 View Post
          We currently work 12's have get a three day weekend, every other weekend . I will give you the run down of our 2 week pay period. Hopefully it makes sence...Work mon / tues - off wed / thurs - work fri, sat, sun - off mon / tues. work wed / thur then off fri, sat, and sun. Then the pay period startes over. Hope that makes sence, its been a long day...
          A lot of the departments around here are the same way. It works out nice because you don't have to burn a lot of vacation time.

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          • #6
            i work 10's in a metropolitan area, but i believe the city adjacent to ours does 12's and gets around the 84 hour dilemma by making the last shift of a two week period an 8 hour shift rather than a 12. i think that's what they do anyway...

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            • #7
              Originally posted by jeffIL View Post
              We are the same as this. Puts us at 84 hrs a pay period and we get paid straight time for those 4 hours over.
              Thanks everyone for the comments. I believe the above is why they want to go to 12s. For starters, it will be an automatic "raise" of $2,106 based on our hourly wage of $20.25. I'm guessing they see a serious need to boast the pay, since similar agencies are paying right at $50K or above, and larger municipal agencies are paying that plus other extras that we don't get. After Nov. we go to the $20.25, and I am thinking they would like to get us at least to the upper $40Ks. So I think this is a way to give us a "raise," when in reality it somewhat would take away from our pay since right now, anything over 40 hours a week is 1.5x pay.

              I personally wouldn't mind the 12s so long as I stay on the day shift and they give us vacation/holiday time that is equal to what we end up working.

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              • #8
                We work the Pitman Schedule. http://www.njlawman.com/pitman-schedule.htm

                Quotes below are from the site. It exactly mimics what we work.

                Advantages of the Pitman Schedule
                Employees only work approximately 15 days per month or 182 days per year
                Employees have a three-day weekend (Friday, Saturday, Sunday) off every other week
                The shorter workweek means more vacation time. To have seven consecutive days off, an employee only needs to use two vacation days
                Because the Pitman Schedule will result in 2,184 hours worked in a calendar year instead of the normal 2080 required work hours, employees will begin each year with approximately 104 personal or comp hours owed to them at the beginning of each year. This comes out to just under nine more days off in addition to the contracted vacation, personal, sick and other leave
                Many organizations report that sick time has gone down as a result of implementing the Pitman Schedule
                Many organizations report improved employee morale as a result of implementing the Pitman Schedule
                Disadvantages of the Pitman Schedule
                12-hour days are long work days
                If the schedule is used with rotating shifts instead of permanent shifts, it can be strenuous on employees
                May not be agreeable with older employees
                Public transportation and day care (where applicable) can become an issue
                We rotate every cycle so you never really get adjusted but it's not terrible, the long weekend helps.
                Brad

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                • #9
                  I guess it depends on whether you're chasing tail lights or criminals, 12 hours can be a long shift. We worked 12's at Wishard Ambulance when I worked there, I really enjoyed the 3 day weekend every other weekend.

                  502
                  Retired Lawdawg & Proud IMPD Papa!




                  "Justice is the one thing you should always find"
                  Toby Keith

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                  • #10
                    My first thought is that I appreciate your optimism, but given that you work for the state?, expect to get screwed. First of all I am of the belief that you have a 28 day pay period of 40 hrs per week, 14 day pay period or 80 hrs., with an ending total at 28 days with 160 hrs. My suspicion is that you have to get a total of 171 +hrs of time worked in the specified pay period to receive time and one half. Additionally if you have a holiday off or take time off you have to work additional hours at straight time to offset the hours taken off to qualify for time and one half. No true incentive to work OT if you take days off since it will be paid at straight time until you exceed 171 hrs.

                    Don't look to accrue comp time as a result of longer days. In theory think more in the lines that your days are now going to be 8.5 hrs vs. 8 hrs. You will now most likley be working 42.5 hr. weeks, 85 hr. pay period every two weeks and 170 hrs. in a 28 day pay period vs. 160 hrs. in the same period of time. The positive is that time and one half OT starts at 171 and greater total hours in the 28 day pay period. The con is that your hourly rate will actually drop.

                    Now when you take time off such as a holiday, vacation, sick and personal time get away from thinking 8 hrs as a day for a period of time off. I'm guessing you get 14 holidays off per year or 112 hrs. per year think in terms of hours rather than days off. Your time off will now be total hours off, I trust this is the way it currently works for you, but 12 hour days, 10.5 hr days etc will take some getting used to.

                    In todays economy I hardly believe that you will be getting a built in pay increase, especially if your a state employee University or otherwise. Regardless, if you get an hourly increase power to you and your co-workers, but expected to be pooped upon. My man your man wants to look good no matter how the math is done.

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                    • #11
                      I work for a State University Police now and love the 12’s we work, it’s much better than the 5/8 at my last agency.

                      Week 1- Sun / Wed / Th (36),

                      Week 2- Mon / Tues / Fri / Sat (48),


                      = 84 hours per pay period, the 4 hours over are at time and a half pay.
                      Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by surfer View Post
                        No true incentive to work OT if you take days off since it will be paid at straight time until you exceed 171 hrs.

                        The con is that your hourly rate will actually drop.

                        Now when you take time off such as a holiday, vacation, sick and personal time get away from thinking 8 hrs as a day for a period of time off. I'm guessing you get 14 holidays off per year or 112 hrs. per year think in terms of hours rather than days off. Your time off will now be total hours off, I trust this is the way it currently works for you, but 12 hour days, 10.5 hr days etc will take some getting used to.

                        In todays economy I hardly believe that you will be getting a built in pay increase, especially if your a state employee University or otherwise. Regardless, if you get an hourly increase power to you and your co-workers, but expected to be pooped upon.
                        We have an hourly rate, and we will get that rate depending on hours worked, so when we average 42/hours a week, they will pay us for that. Right now we are just 40 hours a week, five working days Sun.-Sat. We did just change over-time rules. It used to be that if you took vacation or called in sick, but worked a double the next day, you still got 8 hours of OT. No more of that now. We are not classified as "police" under federal OT rules, so now any hours actually working over 40 is time and a half. The savings to the department is around $1,053 in OT if they throw us under that federal law for police, fire, etc. over-time rules and we got to an average of 42 hours per week worked. That represents the extra 104 hours that we will be working if we go to the standard 12 hour shift other departments work.

                        As far as our vacation, I get 19 days a year, or 152 hours. This doesn't include holiday pay and time off. With holiday pay, if we work a holiday, we get time and a half and eight hours of holiday time to take later. So the issue with 12 hours shifts are will we get 12 hours of time and a half and 12 hours to take later (basically the benefit is that those employees who work a holiday get another day off). If not, many senior officers said they would put in for eight hours off on the holiday and only come in and work four hours.

                        They can't afford to screw us. We are now hiring folks in their late 30s, 40s, and even 50s. We are getting lucky to get folks with the academy, and even some who don't have it, but are in great shape so luckily they can pass. If they were able to leave, some would. This might be one reason they focus hiring on older people, but I don't know this for sure. We have hired a few folks under 35 (now 39 I believe), but not many. Our state retirement isn't as good as the police/fire retirement either. We don't get take home cars. Insurance was cheap, but now if you are not healthy (meet certain standards), you could see insurance go up to $200/month. We are topping out at $42K while other departments are approaching or over $50K. If they don't do something, we would eventually see the department in a position where every year, you could have 15%-25% of the department being new folks.

                        I will be watching closely, but I think they are at a position where they will have to boost pay somewhat. They just can't afford to stand by while other departments increase pay, have a better retirement, etc.. There are only so many older Gen X folks and post baby-boomer people available for hire.

                        Originally posted by Magic Matt View Post
                        Week 1- Sun / Wed / Th (36),

                        Week 2- Mon / Tues / Fri / Sat (48),


                        = 84 hours per pay period, the 4 hours over are at time and a half pay.
                        This will be our likely shift, but I am wondering about the OT. I think they will throw us under the federal law that says we are exempt. While it would be nice, and help boost pay, I doubt my employer will want to pay out 104 hours of OT to every employee. I think this is where some will say we will get "screwed," but OT isn't a right, and that many hours isn't even guaranteed at my department. At others it is, due to special events and such, so I am pretty sure we will be getting some sort of reclassification and those hours won't be OT rate.

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                        • #13
                          I am going to be working for a Helicopter EMS service and we will be working 12 hour shifts 84 hours a week 7 on 7 off. I am anxious to see how my body reacts to that
                          MCSD

                          Written passed 5/22/2010
                          Physical passed 6/12/2010
                          Oral Interview passed 8/26/2010
                          Background passed 9/20/2010
                          Academy FAILED

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