Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is multiple tickets acceptable?

Collapse

300x250 Mobile

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Is multiple tickets acceptable?

    From the Indiana State Police Alliance:

    6:30 PM – Lt/Col Parker addressed the members about Performance Objectives. The top priority is crash reduction. The goal to achieve this is to change driver behavior. And to do this, he feels that the more drivers that are stopped the more driver behaviors will possibly be changed. So that is where the 120 vehicle stops came from. He feels that by stopping 120 vehicles and writing perhaps just one contact instead of 60 vehicles and writing multiple contacts you will be changing the behavior of more drivers. He said that 120 stops is an objective to strive for and failure to reach that objective will not automatically put you in rescue. He advised that he is reviewing every enforcement division personnel’s PAR and that 95% are fine even though they did not have the number of contacts required last year. Their Squad Sergeants were able to articulate the reason and show that the unit was doing a good job. He said that he had very few concerns with our traffic numbers but is concerned about our criminal efforts. He wants troops to slow down and take the time to look for criminal violations during their traffic stops.
    He went on to explain the problems with multiple tickets on one stop. He advised of one troop that stopped a drunk driver. The troop wrote 8 citations to the driver. 3 for DWI offences, unsafe lane movement, failure to signal lane change, failure to sign registration, DWS and failure to have DL in possession. He said that some will say the prosecutor wants this however when the prosecutor was contacted he said it was not his policy and he thought it was our policy. Lt/Col Parker does not feel this is serving the public well.

    ************

    The prosecutors I work with appreciate stacking tickets - gives them charges to work with. What do most of you do? With DUI's and criminal arrests I always write as many tickets as possible.

  • #2
    I write a ticket for the stopping charge(s) in any OWI or driving misdemeanor/felony case. Always.

    If I stop a guy for speed and he's found to be DWS-Prior, he gets a citation for DWS-Prior and either a summons or a trip to the jail for DWS-Prior.

    First off, it's a lost more difficult for the stop to be challenged if you have paper backing up your stopping charge.
    Originally posted by K40
    To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
    ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

    Comment


    • #3
      Parker is probably referring to the large number of multiple tickets...the 8 he is referring to, IMO, too many. 2 or 3 is not. Like PtlCop stated, I too will write for the original stopping charge and any other major subsequent violation. But slamming someone with a large number is just too many. And in my case, would take me 45 minutes since I write slow and do not have E-ticket.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SW Indiana View Post
        Parker is probably referring to the large number of multiple tickets...the 8 he is referring to, IMO, too many. 2 or 3 is not. Like PtlCop stated, I too will write for the original stopping charge and any other major subsequent violation. But slamming someone with a large number is just too many. And in my case, would take me 45 minutes since I write slow and do not have E-ticket.
        eCWS makes it all too easy to stack tickets on somebody. There have been times I COULD have written misd. reckless driving or misd. aggressive driving, but have written 4 tickets for the driving behavior because the punishment is more severe for the tickets combined, then for the misdemeanor. With e-citation, it's like...10 clicks and 4 tickets print out all on one handy sheet of paper.

        On OWI's if they are jerks, they get tickets for everything I witness, including one guy I wrote for speed, unsafe lane movement, driving left of center, and yes...failure to sign his registration.

        One of the benefits of the eCWS is that ALL of my stops now generate some type of paper. Be it a written warning, citation or summons. Most of them generate more than one violation. I don't write a lot of tickets anyway, mostly warnings. I used to only write one warning per stop, now i may write 4.
        Last edited by PtlCop; 03-30-2010, 09:25 PM.
        Originally posted by K40
        To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
        ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree with PtlCop and SW Indiana as their replies fit the concept as to what is reasonable.

          As for crash reduction 8 pieces of paper would appear to get ones attention much more than 2-3.

          Comment


          • #6
            This could be a good idea for the Marion County traffic court thread to review. Stacking tickets would net the same result of higher finds if the judge didn't dismiss any at trial.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by surfer View Post
              This could be a good idea for the Marion County traffic court thread to review. Stacking tickets would net the same result of higher finds if the judge didn't dismiss any at trial.
              I foresee the larger counties with packed traffic courts (Marion, Hamilton, St. Joseph's, Allen, etc) having to split up into multiple courts to deal with people who will now challenge their citations in court knowing their fine will be the same as if they just paid it.
              Originally posted by K40
              To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
              ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by PtlCop View Post
                I foresee the larger counties with packed traffic courts (Marion, Hamilton, St. Joseph's, Allen, etc) having to split up into multiple courts to deal with people who will now challenge their citations in court knowing their fine will be the same as if they just paid it.
                Many counties already have this in place with town and city courts. To name a few:

                Elkhart City
                Nappanee Town
                Fremont Town
                Butler City
                New Haven City
                Portland City
                Marion City
                Gas City
                Yorktown Town
                Noblesville City

                A few even have lay person judges.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by surfer View Post
                  Many counties already have this in place with town and city courts. To name a few:

                  Elkhart City
                  Nappanee Town
                  Fremont Town
                  Butler City
                  New Haven City
                  Portland City
                  Marion City
                  Gas City
                  Yorktown Town
                  Noblesville City

                  A few even have lay person judges.
                  Well right, I was going off strictly county courts. I know ours is PACKED with initial hearings every week. Our city court is SIGNIFICANTLY less crowded, as many people opt to take the diversion programs available, and avoid points on their licenses.
                  Originally posted by K40
                  To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
                  ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PtlCop View Post
                    Well right, I was going off strictly county courts. I know ours is PACKED with initial hearings every week. Our city court is SIGNIFICANTLY less crowded, as many people opt to take the diversion programs available, and avoid points on their licenses.
                    Allen Superior Misdemeanor/traffic Division is much like Marion County traffic court on the east side except they handle misdemeanor and traffic.

                    Elkhart Superior designates one of its Superior Courts for traffic, but most go to City/town courts as they are typically more user friendly for the LEO.

                    City and town courts can significantly reduce Superior or County court volume.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by surfer View Post
                      Allen Superior Misdemeanor/traffic Division is much like Marion County traffic court on the east side except they handle misdemeanor and traffic.

                      Elkhart Superior designates one of its Superior Courts for traffic, but most go to City/town courts as they are typically more user friendly for the LEO.

                      City and town courts can significantly reduce Superior or County court volume.
                      Ours would be MUCH better if our city court could process misdemeanors. But since it's not a court of record, they don't.
                      Originally posted by K40
                      To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
                      ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by blue thunder View Post
                        From the Indiana State Police Alliance:

                        6:30 PM – Lt/Col Parker addressed the members about Performance Objectives. The top priority is crash reduction. The goal to achieve this is to change driver behavior. And to do this, he feels that the more drivers that are stopped the more driver behaviors will possibly be changed. So that is where the 120 vehicle stops came from. He feels that by stopping 120 vehicles and writing perhaps just one contact instead of 60 vehicles and writing multiple contacts you will be changing the behavior of more drivers. He said that 120 stops is an objective to strive for and failure to reach that objective will not automatically put you in rescue. He advised that he is reviewing every enforcement division personnel’s PAR and that 95% are fine even though they did not have the number of contacts required last year. Their Squad Sergeants were able to articulate the reason and show that the unit was doing a good job. He said that he had very few concerns with our traffic numbers but is concerned about our criminal efforts. He wants troops to slow down and take the time to look for criminal violations during their traffic stops. He went on to explain the problems with multiple tickets on one stop. He advised of one troop that stopped a drunk driver. The troop wrote 8 citations to the driver. 3 for DWI offences, unsafe lane movement, failure to signal lane change, failure to sign registration, DWS and failure to have DL in possession. He said that some will say the prosecutor wants this however when the prosecutor was contacted he said it was not his policy and he thought it was our policy. Lt/Col Parker does not feel this is serving the public well.

                        ************

                        The prosecutors I work with appreciate stacking tickets - gives them charges to work with. What do most of you do? With DUI's and criminal arrests I always write as many tickets as possible.
                        I don't know how he wants them to slow down to look for criminal violations when they want more traffic stops........It's probably not that hard in Indy, Ft. Wayne or Gary where there is plenty of traffic night and day, but in the smaller counties with less population all guys are doing now is trying to stop cars. There are some places that after 9 or 10 PM you might only see one or two cars in a 3 hour period. Guys that are working in those counties are leaving to go to higher traffic areas in their respective districts to get their numbers, leaving those counties without a troop.

                        Now I get my fair share of criminal off of traffic, but if you arrest someone early in your shift, and depending on the charge(s), you may be stuck at the jail for 2-3 hours doing paperwork. Then if you collect evidence from that arrest, you now have to drive to the post, which for some is maybe an hour drive, to submit it. So for 1 arrest (which now only counts as 1 defendant, no matter how many charges you get, instead of 2 or 3 criminal arrests, like it used to be) you can spend anywhere from 2-5 hours with paperwork, driving to post, submitting evidence, driving back to your patrol area, etc. etc. So now guys are really ignoring things and just spending their 2-3 minutes typing out their warnings and going after the next car so they can get their 120 traffic stops, and not worrying about criminal, because criminal doesn't seem to be an objective anymore to most of these guys.

                        If guys could arrest someone, charge him with several things, (i.e. possession of marijuana, possession of paraphernalia, maintaing a common nuisance) and get credit for all of those arrests and write him multiple tickets (that will just get dismissed anyway) and get credit for those which will make him closer to his ultimate monthly number, he will have time to look for the criminals and conduct proper investigations.

                        Just my observations........
                        I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it

                        "But the bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet
                        it" - Thucydides

                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Translation: We're going to set goals and rewards/punishments based on X, but what we really want you to focus on is Y. Really. Y is very important to us. Now go do X.
                          I miss you, Dave.
                          http://www.odmp.org/officer/20669-of...david-s.-moore

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by surfer View Post
                            This could be a good idea for the Marion County traffic court thread to review. Stacking tickets would net the same result of higher finds if the judge didn't dismiss any at trial.
                            Yeah, but only if you stacked a lot. Remember you only pay court costs once, and the court costs are the majority of the fine. Each additional ticket would only be the fine portion, less than $40.

                            Of course where it *would* eat you up is points, and that can be an expensive proposition if your insurance company happens to notice 12-16 points popping up all of a sudden.
                            I miss you, Dave.
                            http://www.odmp.org/officer/20669-of...david-s.-moore

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CruiserClass View Post
                              Translation: We're going to set goals and rewards/punishments based on X, but what we really want you to focus on is Y. Really. Y is very important to us. Now go do X.
                              What is sounds like to me is this:
                              We are strapped for money, so we want more ticket revenue. However, you troops need to make sure to look out for those cars that have a $1,000,000 in drug money in the spare tire, because we need that too.

                              As far as writing someone who is DWS-Prior numerous tickets, that seems to be a joke with the vast majority of DWS-Prior drivers that I know. Most have so many unpaid tickets, they don't ever plan on paying them in my opinion. They will just keep going through life, eventually obtaining HTV and HTV-Life status.

                              Comment

                              MR300x250 Tablet

                              Collapse

                              What's Going On

                              Collapse

                              There are currently 5164 users online. 328 members and 4836 guests.

                              Most users ever online was 158,966 at 04:57 AM on 01-16-2021.

                              Welcome Ad

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X