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  • IMPD Patrol Rifle....What Options?

    I'm planning to buy my son a patrol rifle for his upcoming birthday in a couple of months, and I want him to have it way in advance of his 3rd year on, so he will be familiar and accurate with it. Is there an "approved list" of rifles to choose from? Also, any recommended accessories such as Laser or Tachlights? I appreciate the help, and no, I'm not willing to adopt anyone.

    502
    Retired Lawdawg & Proud IMPD Papa!




    "Justice is the one thing you should always find"
    Toby Keith

  • #2
    There is a full approved list at the range. I have a Rock River Arms Entry Tactical with a Streamlight TLR-1 mounted on the rails. Lasers are prohibited. Unless things have changed he will have to go through the department patrol rifle course with a department issued rifle before he would be allowed to qualify and carry his own.

    Comment


    • #3
      A lot of guys use the Rock River carbines. Bushmaster, LMT and Colt are also used. I just use the IMPD issued Colt M16A1 20" (decommissioned semi-auto, of course). I slapped some A2 handguards on it with a mini-rail for a TLR-1 tactical light, plus a 3 point tactical sling. Works great for what we use patrol rifles for!

      Your son will have to carry the issued M16A1 after completing rifle school, until his first in-service qualification. At that point, he can turn in his issued rifle and carry an approved personal rifle that he has qualified with.

      A personally owned rifle can have optics, like an Aimpoint or EoTech, but it MUST have backup iron sights. No lasers allowed. He must qualify with both the iron sights and the optics, if his rifle is so equipped.

      I think a basic carbine with a detachable carry handle is the best configuration. I find the typical metal quad rail to be unnecessarily heavy and pointless. I think a vertical foregrip is useless on a semi-auto rifle, especially one in a patrol rifle role. I like the KISS principle. A simple tac light on a mini rail works great, and iron sights do the job. With a detachable carry handle configuration, your son could always go with a red dot and a flip-up rear iron sight in the future, after he learns to shoot accurately with basic irons. Also, a good sling is a must. I prefer a 3-point, as it is very stable, but lots of guys like the single point slings.

      One thing to remember is to buy him some good quality magazines. The issued mags are the standard aluminum GI junk. Get him some Pmags or C Products black stainless steel mags. These are the only 2 kinds I use, and they have both been flawless in my experience.

      Here are some pics of my issued rifle. Two other easy mods that I heartily recommend are a Hogue pistol grip and Magpul oversized trigger guard. The grip is very comfortable, and the trigger guard fills in the annoying open space where the grip meets the rear of the trigger guard, preventing the top of your middle finger from being rubbed raw during a day of training.





      Last edited by K40; 09-07-2009, 07:31 PM.
      Did I fire six shots, or only five?

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks everyone, especially K40!

        502
        Retired Lawdawg & Proud IMPD Papa!




        "Justice is the one thing you should always find"
        Toby Keith

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree with a lot of what K40 says, but not all. I personally think a vertical foregrip is ESPECIALLY helpful on a patrol rifle. It makes it much faster to get followup shots, and provides TONS more weapon retention when clearing a house with the rifle. I hardly think a vert foregrip violates the KISS principle, as it is not really a point that is subject to failure, as long as you buy quality. I have over 15000 rounds through my rifle, and not one, non-self-induced failure on it. That includes close to a dozen schools, and our rifle inservices for the last several years.

          The 20 inch A1's they issued are some of the better A1's I have seen, but a 20" barrel still puts four more inches of barrel in the way of clearing a corner, etc.

          In terms of single point or 2/3 point slings, I personally went with a single point as it allows me to switch shoulders much smoother than the 2 or 3 point slings, but that is purely a matter of opinion.

          Some of the quad rail systems are very bulky, while others, like the Surefire are not. I like mine, just because it gives me more options on where I can mount my light. I personally despise my light mounted on the side, because I get one side that is "blind" when I do it. The rail system let me figure out exactly where I like mine mounted, with a minimum of hassle. Are our rifles mounted with IR, NV, or all the other bells and whistles? Nope, so the vast majority of rail space IS wasted with a quad rail.

          Is your son a lefty? If so, I found that a Norgon Ambi-catch, and an ambi-safety are great. I shot pure right handed rifles for years, but as a lefty, those two things are great. They also are not a waste for righties, in terms of being able to shoot lefty if needed (less benefit for sure, but not a waste)

          +1 on the Hogue grip. Another option for the knuckle-hating gap on the trigger guard is an item called the Gapper. Just a piece of rubber that goes into the gap.

          Also, as far as stocks go, if you get him a collapsible stock, there are only two viable options in my opinion. The Magpul stock, and the VLTOR stock, with the edge going to Magpul. Both are very well made, but in terms of stability, the Magpul wins hands down. The downside to collapsible stocks has always been the wiggle they bring with them. There is no more wiggle on a Magpul than there is on a fixed stock, which takes that out of the equation. A collapsible is hardly a necessity, but it is nice being able to adjust for length of pull, especially when wearing armor.

          In all honesty, it is very easy to drop a ton of money into a rifle. I know that the rifle is going to your son, so that may take some of the sting out, but you can easily drop 3000+ in a good work gun.

          I have a Colt, and I love it, but the price tag is exponentially higher than a Rock River, Bushmaster, etc. LMT makes a great rifle as well. A great post to reference is here:

          http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81462

          I think that thread has a link to the "chart" that shows every possible manufacturing option available for AR's. Rock River, LMT, and Bushmaster all make great rifles, but Colt is the only one that does a couple of QC steps, magnafluxing being one. Does it make Colt the only viable work gun? Absolutely not. It's just one more step that keeps there from being a lemon off the line. My next rifle will more than likely will be an LMT, so I am not a blind adherent to Colt's superiority

          In terms of what I would consider a barebones work gun, I would go with a quality platform (Colt, LMT, RRA, Bushmaster would be MY order), a weaponlight,a VFG (vertical foregrip), and good magazines, with a good optic being on the list as well. I was raised shooting iron sights, and came into the optic world kicking and screaming, but there really is no comparison. Speed of target acquisition, follow up shots, and use in low light are VASTLY superior using optics. A BUIS (backup iron sight) is imperative, in the unlikely event the sight ges down, but there really is no downside to modern optics for a patrol rifle. We are not there to make 500 yard shots. For the 100 yard and in shot we are likely to be asked to make, optics are perfectly accurate. The new Aimpoints have a battery life of YEARS. They are also rock solid. I've dropped mine, shot it in snow, rain, and sweltering heat, with zero issues.

          Finally, if you really want to be a cool Dad, get him a class to go with his new rifle. I highly recommend Pat Rogers course. He comes through Boone County 3-4 times a year, hosted by Sheriff Campbell up there. If I remember correctly class price is about 450 for 3 days, which is very reasonable considering Gunsite et al charge 900ish for 5 day classes.
          Last edited by Disturbed; 09-12-2009, 05:08 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 55-502 View Post
            I'm planning to buy my son a patrol rifle for his upcoming birthday in a couple of months, and I want him to have it way in advance of his 3rd year on, so he will be familiar and accurate with it. Is there an "approved list" of rifles to choose from? Also, any recommended accessories such as Laser or Tachlights? I appreciate the help, and no, I'm not willing to adopt anyone.

            502
            That is one hell of a Dad!!!!
            "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Disturbed View Post
              I agree with a lot of what K40 says, but not all. I personally think a vertical foregrip is ESPECIALLY helpful on a patrol rifle. It makes it much faster to get followup shots, and provides TONS more weapon retention when clearing a house with the rifle. I hardly think a vert foregrip violates the KISS principle, as it is not really a point that is subject to failure, as long as you buy quality. I have over 15000 rounds through my rifle, and not one, non-self-induced failure on it. That includes close to a dozen schools, and our rifle inservices for the last several years.

              The 20 inch A1's they issued are some of the better A1's I have seen, but a 20" barrel still puts four more inches of barrel in the way of clearing a corner, etc.

              In terms of single point or 2/3 point slings, I personally went with a single point as it allows me to switch shoulders much smoother than the 2 or 3 point slings, but that is purely a matter of opinion.

              Some of the quad rail systems are very bulky, while others, like the Surefire are not. I like mine, just because it gives me more options on where I can mount my light. I personally despise my light mounted on the side, because I get one side that is "blind" when I do it. The rail system let me figure out exactly where I like mine mounted, with a minimum of hassle. Are our rifles mounted with IR, NV, or all the other bells and whistles? Nope, so the vast majority of rail space IS wasted with a quad rail.

              Is your son a lefty? If so, I found that a Norgon Ambi-catch, and an ambi-safety are great. I shot pure right handed rifles for years, but as a lefty, those two things are great. They also are not a waste for righties, in terms of being able to shoot lefty if needed (less benefit for sure, but not a waste)

              +1 on the Hogue grip. Another option for the knuckle-hating gap on the trigger guard is an item called the Gapper. Just a piece of rubber that goes into the gap.

              Also, as far as stocks go, if you get him a collapsible stock, there are only two viable options in my opinion. The Magpul stock, and the VLTOR stock, with the edge going to Magpul. Both are very well made, but in terms of stability, the Magpul wins hands down. The downside to collapsible stocks has always been the wiggle they bring with them. There is no more wiggle on a Magpul than there is on a fixed stock, which takes that out of the equation. A collapsible is hardly a necessity, but it is nice being able to adjust for length of pull, especially when wearing armor.

              In all honesty, it is very easy to drop a ton of money into a rifle. I know that the rifle is going to your son, so that may take some of the sting out, but you can easily drop 3000+ in a good work gun.

              I have a Colt, and I love it, but the price tag is exponentially higher than a Rock River, Bushmaster, etc. LMT makes a great rifle as well. A great post to reference is here:

              http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81462

              I think that thread has a link to the "chart" that shows every possible manufacturing option available for AR's. Rock River, LMT, and Bushmaster all make great rifles, but Colt is the only one that does a couple of QC steps, magnafluxing being one. Does it make Colt the only viable work gun? Absolutely not. It's just one more step that keeps there from being a lemon off the line. My next rifle will more than likely will be an LMT, so I am not a blind adherent to Colt's superiority

              In terms of what I would consider a barebones work gun, I would go with a quality platform (Colt, LMT, RRA, Bushmaster would be MY order), a weaponlight,a VFG (vertical foregrip), and good magazines, with a good optic being on the list as well. I was raised shooting iron sights, and came into the optic world kicking and screaming, but there really is no comparison. Speed of target acquisition, follow up shots, and use in low light are VASTLY superior using optics. A BUIS (backup iron sight) is imperative, in the unlikely event the sight ges down, but there really is no downside to modern optics for a patrol rifle. We are not there to make 500 yard shots. For the 100 yard and in shot we are likely to be asked to make, optics are perfectly accurate. The new Aimpoints have a battery life of YEARS. They are also rock solid. I've dropped mine, shot it in snow, rain, and sweltering heat, with zero issues.

              Finally, if you really want to be a cool Dad, get him a class to go with his new rifle. I highly recommend Pat Rogers course. He comes through Boone County 3-4 times a year, hosted by Sheriff Campbell up there. If I remember correctly class price is about 450 for 3 days, which is very reasonable considering Gunsite et al charge 900ish for 5 day classes.
              This is an EXCELLENT post.
              Why are there so many babies on O.com? Creole, you and your buddy JPSO Recruit help me out on this one....

              * "Preach always, if necessary, use words!" St Francis of Assisi

              * Luke Chapter 6, Verses 27-36

              Comment


              • #8
                Or the Yavapi Firearms LTD classes by Louis Arbuckle. I have been to four of his classes at Boone County and they are top notch IMO.
                "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

                Comment

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