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  • CPAT for Police?

    Just want some thoughts on this if anyone is interested!

    I was talking to a career firefighter over memorial weekend, and we started talking about the physical tests when applying to a fire department, and he stated to me that firefighters have to apply for a CPAT Card and most are good for one year.

    For those that aren't familiar with the CPAT Card, like I was, a CPAT Card shows to an applicants department that you are physically "fit" per CPAT standards.

    I think this would be an awesome idea for police candidates in the State.

    You test once at ILEA Graduation Standards, you pass, and you receive a card. I say graduation standards because those that are applicants are most likely conditioning on a pretty normal basis therefore, I believe it would be unlikely to take a step back and fail your first physical test during week 1 of the Academy.

    Not only would it save Departments the time and the effort on the Department End, but it would also weed out the ants that aren't serious about this job.

    The cost of the CPAT is $130.00 which includes Orientation, 2 practice tests, the actual test, and your card upon completion. If you fail you can retest as many times as you want for $50.00/test for up to one year.

    Anyone else think this a good idea? Why or Why Not?

  • #2
    I'd definately be infavor of this. I'm also a huge supporter of having a statewide written test and being put on a civil service list like many other states are. When I was job hunting, it was a pain in the butt to drive here or there to end up taking damn near the exact same written test.

    Give the written every two years or so and hire off of it and throw in the CPAT card. Yeah, I'd sign off on that.
    Why are there so many babies on O.com? Creole, you and your buddy JPSO Recruit help me out on this one....

    * "Preach always, if necessary, use words!" St Francis of Assisi

    * Luke Chapter 6, Verses 27-36

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    • #3
      standardized written and physical tests for LE candidates is a great idea so you can apply to multiple departments

      i would also be in favor of making the physical requirements more demanding... a mile and half in 16.5 minutes isn't much of a standard

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      • #4
        The standard's aren't that difficult, but in my recent experience, with two different process, it resulted in about a 50% fail rate on PAT test. At the academy they expalained how those standards were created. I think with the standards now it still gives the departments the option to make thier standards more strick. I believe Shelbyville have more strick standards than ILEA exit standards.
        The old Miller76. I lost my password.

        ~Sometimes there is justice, sometimes there is Just us!~

        DISCLAIMER: All opinions herein are mine, they do not reflect the opinions or position of my employing agency nor do they reflect any position of the agency.

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        • #5
          there is a national registry for EMTs, and firefighters are national too, aren't they? aside from each state's individual law class why not make a national certification also?

          why make it necessary to be certified, work a year, and THEN be able to work in another state (after taking that states law class, firearms)?

          as you guys have said, and i think maine might do this too, test once, carry a piece of paper that says you've passed XYZ and here are your results. offer it once a year or every other to improve or show that you've maintained. why isn't this already being done?
          Paid to watch 30 second ads|CopCars|Spiritual Wisdom|LotPatrol

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Miller87 View Post
            The standard's aren't that difficult, but in my recent experience, with two different process, it resulted in about a 50% fail rate on PAT test. At the academy they expalained how those standards were created. I think with the standards now it still gives the departments the option to make thier standards more strick. I believe Shelbyville have more strick standards than ILEA exit standards.
            Personally, I'd rather see an officer hired based on his ability to communicate effectively in English, rather than hiring someone based on a spectacular mile and a half run time. I've written thousands of police reports during my career, including probable cause affidavits and investigations reports that resulted in felons going to jail for the rest of their lives. I have yet to run even a quarter of a mile on duty. As long as minimum fitness standards are met, to ensure a base level of physical ability, there are a lot of skills that are MUCH more important than run times and pushups. Your local PD is not the Navy Seals.

            Strick? What are they teaching in English class these days?
            Did I fire six shots, or only five?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by AuxiTrooper View Post
              there is a national registry for EMTs

              There is, but its a misnomer. The "National Registry" isn't nationally recognized. When I was an EMT, 30 something states accepted Nationals, but Indiana wasn't one of them.

              Kentucky was, but didn't have an "Intermediate" level, so they only recognized Basic and Paramedic.

              Nationals recognize Basic, Intermediate, and Paramedic, but some states have "half levels" that allow certain skills to be used. Kansas had a (D) designator for those certified on manual defibrillation, and it could be added to either Basic or Intermediate. Nationals have no such certification.
              I miss you, Dave.
              http://www.odmp.org/officer/20669-of...david-s.-moore

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              • #8
                well after writing my local congress and senate, I was informed that my idea has been added to list of topics to speak of when the time comes around later this year/early next year....

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                • #9
                  Interesting, I doubt that will ever happen though.. I would definetly be in favor of it though!!!!!

                  As other members have said, I have never ever ran anything close to 1/4th a mile while working, but I still believe in the physical standards..
                  "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck"

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by towncop View Post
                    I'd definately be infavor of this. I'm also a huge supporter of having a statewide written test and being put on a civil service list like many other states are. When I was job hunting, it was a pain in the butt to drive here or there to end up taking damn near the exact same written test.

                    Give the written every two years or so and hire off of it and throw in the CPAT card. Yeah, I'd sign off on that.
                    I saw that Montana did this. You could check for which departments you were interested in. You got ranked and put on a list. When that department requested a list of people to hire from, they got send the list and the department could then start at the interview stage.

                    Originally posted by mono2000 View Post
                    i would also be in favor of making the physical requirements more demanding... a mile and half in 16.5 minutes isn't much of a standard
                    This is Indiana, we are an obese state and some powers that be have to make sure the political and family hires can make it through ILEA.

                    If they want a 11 min. mile, so be it. However, some of the states out west are rewarding people who are in better physical shape. I wouldn't mind seeing this applied to our standards. It would make people really work at the exercises involved and not just strive for the minimum. As it stands now, only the larger, competitive departments seem to impose the ILEA exit standards during the hiring process. Some of the smaller departments that have a harder time recruiting use the entrance standards, which are really a joke. I have also seen some other states break the standards down by age and gender. I am against this even though I am in my early 30s. I can easily past all portions of the test, but if I knew that I would get extra points for additional sit-ups, push ups, shaving time off my run, etc., I likely would push myself to the limit.

                    I also would like to see other factors used to rank people. Using a written test and interview score only is good for some, so-so for others, and totally sucks for some. It would be nice to take those two scores, then offer other points for military service, add'l military education while in the service, military rank, police service, ILEA certification, college education, LE training certifications/specialties, etc.. Granted, this would help folks like me, and other older officers (especially those with military, college, and are currently sworn LEs), so I may be a little bias in that aspect.

                    Originally posted by Miller87 View Post
                    I believe Shelbyville have more strick standards than ILEA exit standards.
                    They don't, I just checked their application. I wouldn't bet on any department having more strict standards besides those of ILEA exit standards. The reason would be fear of lawsuits. The way the standards are now, there are enough female recruits/police officers to blow any gender discrimination lawsuits out of the water. Obesity isn't a protected class..yet, but at the last process I was in, there were plenty of heavy set guys and gals that were able to pass the tests. If a department got more strict, they could end up facing a lawsuit.

                    Originally posted by K40 View Post
                    Personally, I'd rather see an officer hired based on his ability to communicate effectively in English, rather than hiring someone based on a spectacular mile and a half run time. I've written thousands of police reports during my career, including probable cause affidavits and investigations reports that resulted in felons going to jail for the rest of their lives. I have yet to run even a quarter of a mile on duty. As long as minimum fitness standards are met, to ensure a base level of physical ability, there are a lot of skills that are MUCH more important than run times and pushups. Your local PD is not the Navy Seals.

                    Strick? What are they teaching in English class these days?
                    The tests they use are somewhat silly. I mean they don't test for logic in terms of common sense, instead they are simple memorization tests. Guess what, you might hire someone who can memorize the laws front and back, and be able explain reasonable suspicion to 5th graders, the problem is: Will they practice what they know? Will they be able to react under pressure? Can they make simple decisions while out in the field w/o having to constantly ask a co-worker or supervisor for confirmation they are making the right choice? I have seen some probable causes that I could tear to shreds as a defense attorney, but too many people who get locked up are poor, and if their PD isn't that bright, they don't make good legal arguments on their clients behalf.

                    As far as the physical. I would rather see more emphasis on upper body strength than stamina in a long run. I really like the sprint, as that is more related to patrol work than a long run. They should really should have a shorter run, and give extra points for extra push-ups, sit-ups, and quick sprints.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Miller87 View Post
                      The standard's aren't that difficult, but in my recent experience, with two different process, it resulted in about a 50% fail rate on PAT test. At the academy they expalained how those standards were created. I think with the standards now it still gives the departments the option to make thier standards more strick. I believe Shelbyville have more strick standards than ILEA exit standards.
                      This is not true. Shelbyville uses the ILEA exit standards.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mark268 View Post
                        This is not true. Shelbyville uses the ILEA exit standards.
                        You guys must have changed it because about 3 years or so ago, I had looked at your department when the waters were rocky here at my current department. Your PT test on the 1.5 mile run was less than the ILEA exit time. Was listed in the 15 min and change area.
                        Why are there so many babies on O.com? Creole, you and your buddy JPSO Recruit help me out on this one....

                        * "Preach always, if necessary, use words!" St Francis of Assisi

                        * Luke Chapter 6, Verses 27-36

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm in favor of a greater insurance discount and bonus pay for keeping fit. You pass the test each year and you earn $1,000 extra a year. Like shift diff or something.

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