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  • #16
    CB I think you are completely right. I'm not sure what was intended originally but i think it was how some idiots present themselves to others. What I said about "self importance" stands. Bottom line: If you are not sworn as a POLICE OFFICER do not present yourself as one.
    One Shot, One Kill. Anything else is just pu(ff)y!

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by cclawdog
      CB I think you are completely right. I'm not sure what was intended originally but i think it was how some idiots present themselves to others. What I said about "self importance" stands. Bottom line: If you are not sworn as a POLICE OFFICER do not present yourself as one.

      I am glad you agree....and as I implied in my earlier posts the Job of a C/O requires a different kind of person...the type of person that many cops couldnt be if they tried...It is a hard job and most of you do it well....you all need to be proud of what you do!!!
      You cant arrest me...I know my Commandments!!

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by cityblusuit
        I am glad you agree....and as I implied in my earlier posts the Job of a C/O requires a different kind of person...the type of person that many cops couldnt be if they tried...It is a hard job and most of you do it well....you all need to be proud of what you do!!!
        Yeah. I am proud. Damned proud!
        One Shot, One Kill. Anything else is just pu(ff)y!

        Comment


        • #19
          We are just going to go around in circles on this. The sole reason one has to go to the Sheriff's Police Academy is because Correctional Officers are not Certified Law Enforcement Officers. I explained this already.

          In order to function as a Law Enforcement Officer, they have to be certified law enforcement officer. In order to function as a correctional officer, they have to be certified as a correctional officer. Powers of arrest are another issue.

          The fact remains that a deputized individual whether certified as a law enforcement officer or a county correctional officer has arrest authority the same as any other police officer period.

          You are not given your arrest authority by virtue of your certification by the state. You are given your arrest authority by virtue of being appointed by the chief of police as a police officer or in the case of a sheriff a deputy.

          With the way you are talking, a local law enforcement officer is no more than a person whose assistance has been sought by the local chief of police.

          Off duty arrests by CCDOC officers that have been battered have been successfully charged as Agg Battery to a Peace Officer. How can that be?

          Like I said we can go around and around on this issue.
          Last edited by SeVere; 09-28-2006, 06:09 AM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Just was wondering, if you go through the County Academy for C/O or Court Services, do you have to take the State of Ill. Certification Test to graduate?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by ChiTownDet
              Just was wondering, if you go through the County Academy for C/O or Court Services, do you have to take the State of Ill. Certification Test to graduate?
              Yes, but you are a certified county correctional officer, not a law enforcement officer.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by SeVere
                Yes, but you are a certified county correctional officer, not a law enforcement officer.

                Nobody is going in circles but you.....in order to appease you I will concede there are two certs....but regardless of the cert they are administratively limited in what they can do then they are not what you say they are....they cannot walk like a duck and they cannot talk like a duck...therefore THEY AINT DUCKS!!!! Using your logic, logic would dictate the state training board doesnt need to establish the different certification because to hear you say it..... the distinction between the certs is purely semantics. Again tell the sheriff, you can save the county a boatload of money...he may deputize you a police officer..or a certified corrections officer...or a deputy....or a ...nevermind

                You Said......
                You are not given your arrest authority by virtue of your certification by the state. You are given your arrest authority by virtue of being appointed by the chief of police as a police officer or in the case of a sheriff a deputy.

                With the way you are talking, a local law enforcement officer is no more than a person whose assistance has been sought by the local chief of police.


                That is exactly what it is right!! A deputy is appointed to assist the sheriff (ergo the title deputy sheriff) and by virtue of the quote from ILCS you provided in your earlier post no one including me ever disagreed.....they work under the auspices of a sheriff who by Illinois Law is not required to a a cert'd LEO......In the same breath, a local police officer is no different except that he must be certified as an LEO to be appointed by his Chief

                You Said...
                Off duty arrests by CCDOC officers that have been battered have been successfully charged as Agg Battery to a Peace Officer. How can that be?


                Duh...it is sucessfully charged because the statute specifically enumerates that it can be charged...its right after the line that makes it agg batt to batter a CTA driver.....and as it relates to sheriff's and police employees the statute makes it agg batt if the battery is committed against the victim in the performance of the victim's official duties or in retaliation for the performance of his /her official duties

                We dont have to go round and round, your argument is like swiss cheese and you have active deputies and C/O's telling you the same in previous posts.

                I identified distinctions between Cops and C/O's and specifically Deputies in Cook County and I never tried to diminish the role of C/O's and make them less than cops......I repeatedy praised the job that they do .....I simply stated they were not cops and they are not!!

                Give it a SEVERE rest!!!!!
                You cant arrest me...I know my Commandments!!

                Comment


                • #23
                  [QUOTE=cityblusuit] Nobody is going in circles but you.....in order to appease you I will concede there are two certs....but regardless of the cert they are administratively limited in what they can do then they are not what you say they are....they cannot walk like a duck and they cannot talk like a duck...therefore THEY AINT DUCKS!!!! Using your logic, logic would dictate the state training board doesnt need to establish the different certification because to hear you say it..... the distinction between the certs is purely semantics. Again tell the sheriff, you can save the county a boatload of money...he may deputize you a police officer..or a certified corrections officer...or a deputy....or a ...nevermind

                  You Said......
                  You are not given your arrest authority by virtue of your certification by the state. You are given your arrest authority by virtue of being appointed by the chief of police as a police officer or in the case of a sheriff a deputy.

                  With the way you are talking, a local law enforcement officer is no more than a person whose assistance has been sought by the local chief of police.


                  That is exactly what it is right!! A deputy is appointed to assist the sheriff (ergo the title deputy sheriff) and by virtue of the quote from ILCS you provided in your earlier post no one including me ever disagreed.....they work under the auspices of a sheriff who by Illinois Law is not required to a a cert'd LEO......In the same breath, a local police officer is no different except that he must be certified as an LEO to be appointed by his Chief

                  You Said...
                  Off duty arrests by CCDOC officers that have been battered have been successfully charged as Agg Battery to a Peace Officer. How can that be?


                  [QUOTE=cityblusuit]Duh...it is sucessfully charged because the statute specifically enumerates that it can be charged...its right after the line that makes it agg batt to batter a CTA driver.....and as it relates to sheriff's and police employees the statute makes it agg batt if the battery is committed against the victim in the performance of the victim's official duties or in retaliation for the performance of his /her official duties
                  Originally posted by cityblusuit

                  We dont have to go round and round, your argument is like swiss cheese and you have active deputies and C/O's telling you the same in previous posts.

                  I identified distinctions between Cops and C/O's and specifically Deputies in Cook County and I never tried to diminish the role of C/O's and make them less than cops......I repeatedy praised the job that they do .....I simply stated they were not cops and they are not!!

                  Give it a SEVERE rest!!!!!
                  I NEVER said they were cops. They do however, like it or not, have police powers which include powers of arrest and are Peace Officers.

                  (720 ILCS 5/2‑13) (from Ch. 38, par. 2‑13)
                  (Text of Section from P.A. 94‑730)
                  Sec. 2‑13. "Peace officer". "Peace officer" means any person who by virtue of his office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to maintain public order or to make arrests for offenses, whether that duty extends to all offenses or is limited to specific offenses.



                  Originally posted by cityblusuit
                  Duh...it is sucessfully charged because the statute specifically enumerates that it can be charged...its right after the line that makes it agg batt to batter a CTA driver.....and as it relates to sheriff's and police employees the statute makes it agg batt if the battery is committed against the victim in the performance of the victim's official duties or in retaliation for the performance of his /her official duties

                  Do official duties then include making arrests off duty? I certainly would hold so because it "aint" got nothin' to do with the jail or the court for an off duty Deputy to arrest someone.


                  Here is what you are missing. I am not going to hijack this poor guys thread anymore.

                  About the certifications. The certifications limit what your primary responsibility will be. That is why the sheriff does not send people to C/O academy to save money. Primary responsibility vs. authority of arrest. They are trained for the job function they will perform.

                  I Know you can not send a C/O out to patrol day to day and function as a law enforcement officer; however, that aside does not diminish the lawful authority to make arrests by Cook County C/O's by virtue of their deputization. Again, this is why the sheriff just does not send out people to the C/O academy to save money. They will not be trained to patrol and have the primary responsibility of law enforcement.

                  I will tell one that is not administratively limited and that is the power of arrest granted to the deputized individal, it's the same as a police officer. I agree that they are not cops and are not Law Enforcement Officers, but their authority to arrest is identical, like it or not.

                  We can agree to disagree.

                  County Correctional Officer

                  Law Enforcement Officer
                  Last edited by SeVere; 09-29-2006, 06:24 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Cook County C/Os do have full arrest powers. No they are not fully trained Police Officers. This power is by virtue of thier Deputization status the same status that Sheriff's Police have. Courts, Corrections and Sheriff's Police, all are Deputy sheriffs, HOWEVER, recruits are taught what thier specific job functions are. You can as a C/O play Miami Vice but you will probably lose your job and maybe your life because you are not trained as a Police Officer. I think the confusion is between what the state of Illinois Compiled Statutes say about Peace Officers and the guidelines the sheriff's Department has set forth for his Corrections Officers. There are stranger things than this. The City of Chicago has Revenue Investigators that have full Police Powers within the City of Chicago when it comes to business license investigations. They effect the arrest but CPD does transport. No Academy experience required.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by cityblusuit
                      In every Illinois County......except Cook County....a deputy sherriff is a police officer. Inherent in saying "I work for the county" is an implication that there is some police authority. When I was on Chicago the term "real police" came to light mainly because of C/O's who sought to imply that they were the police. Hence the friction. Cook County actually has several police agencies, they may not all be respected but they are all police agencies. Among them the Investigations Bureau of the State's Attorney, Cook County Stroger Hospital, Oak Forest Hospital, the Forest Preserve District, Brookfield Zoo, the Memorial Park District, the Inspector General and of course the Sheriff's Police ..... In know I missed some and there are others. A corrections Officer is not a P/O...technically he is a deputy sheriff and carries a weapon by virtue of deputation. Cook County Deputies and C/O have VERY limited arrest authority.....ie orders of a judge or when they ride for free on the CTA (at least they used to).

                      By the same token, they do a job that most cops CANT do...they are surrounded by recently convicted or hopefully soon to be convicted felons on a daily basis, they are massively undermanned and they are unarmed.....if you have ever had an opportunity to be inside Division 5 at 26th and CAL it is organized chaos......I dont know a single Chicago cop who doesnt take his trash to the alley without a gun on let alone feel comfortable inside the jail

                      SEVERE.....above is my original post, in the process of all of your pontificating you went off on some type of tangent to assert that they have FULL POLICE POWERS...I asserted that they do not have FULL POLICE POWERS.....I stated above that their authority to arrest is VERY LIMITED, BECAUSE OF THE SCOPE OF THIER DUTIES. By extension, their scope is limited by their training and their administration. Yes an arrest is an arrest, there is no such thing as a half an arrest. Their authority to arrest is very limited in the context of when and how they can do it.....as a Police Officer (not a Peace Officer) it is not. Peace Officers...Conservators of the Peace call them what you wish, the powers extended to them by law can be diminished by administrative policy. Others in previous post do not deny what they possess by virtue of law....but organizational culture negates any of that.

                      You are stuck on the letter of the law and not the spirit of its application or the policy of those in charge who set its level of interpretation.

                      Let me put it in terms that you can understand as a Chicago Police Officer. Although things do change, I believe this comes from a standard lecture at 1300 W Jackson and your General Orders. "The rules regarding regarding the use of force in the Chicago Police Department are deliberately more restrictive than state statute allows..."

                      That being said....let me translate for you......just because it is allowed by the law doesnt mean your agency or its administration condones it or will back you as acting within the scope of your duties.

                      In your own words from your last post, you hijacked this post because you were stuck on some limited notion and you were quick to try to read between the lines and you were wrong ...especially regarding the points I was trying to make. You clearly tried to do a little research in areas that were not germane to the point in order to justify how you hijacked this thread. My original intent was to articulate some distinctions between cook county and the rest of Illinois and how many attempt to blur and confuse their authority.....by talking about when you worked for the county and YOUR perceived authority, you only made the point that was brought up in the first place about C/O's who identify themselves as anything but.

                      You call it "agreeing to disagree".....I call it stubbornly failing to admit you made a mistake. If you cant admit making a mistake on an anonymous forum what happens if you make a mistake on the street and are too proud too fix it....thats scary!!!

                      While I was typing this HIMSO seems to have also supplied his thoughts..... purty accurately I might add.
                      Last edited by cityblusuit; 09-29-2006, 12:04 PM. Reason: fix
                      You cant arrest me...I know my Commandments!!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        OK Fellas, I think everyone is on the same side page here, just arriving from different angles. Cook County C/Os receive State of Illinois Basic Law enforcement training certification. According to ILCS our authority granted by state law comes from the same statute that grants every Police Officer in the state his/her authority to arrest. If we stick to the letter of the law, yes, we do have the same Police Powers as let's say CPD or Sheriff's Police, but as I said, according to the Sheriff's G.O.s we are not supposed to act in that capacity unless it is a case of death or great bodily harm. The reason we are deputized with full arrest authority (leave it to Crook County) is because the department receives federal funding for Sworn Deputized Officers. We give him greater numbers and more money.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          ^^^^
                          Never knew that. Cool.

                          From Bluesuit "While I was typing this HIMSO seems to have also supplied his thoughts..... purty accurately I might add."

                          Yup. More or less what I was trying to say. He did it more to the point.
                          Last edited by cclawdog; 09-30-2006, 01:52 AM.
                          One Shot, One Kill. Anything else is just pu(ff)y!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            i know this is stretching the original topic a little but it seems like the "in the knows" are posting on this....

                            what about the (c/o's) arresting authority of other local counties. in particular will and dupage county? same as cook? or same as mchenry which is none as far as i know.

                            thanks.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by angelasdad
                              i know this is stretching the original topic a little but it seems like the "in the knows" are posting on this....

                              what about the (c/o's) arresting authority of other local counties. in particular will and dupage county? same as cook? or same as mchenry which is none as far as i know.

                              thanks.
                              As I said in my original post, persons with the title deputy sherrff are police officers in the 101 other counties besides cook.....cant speak for the other counties and their c/o's. I do know for a fact that deputy sheriff's hired in Will County went to both c/o and police academies at PTI and a deputiy spent up to 2 yrs in the jail before hitting the street. COrrections Officers only went to the correction acadeny.
                              You cant arrest me...I know my Commandments!!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Huey County
                                ^^ Academy and PTI or two different things

                                Just please if you guys get hired for Corrections, don't be "that guy."
                                You know the one that says they work for "County." My reply to them are, you a janitor for them?
                                Just about every Corrections Officer I have delt with say that.

                                Well, good luck guys and stay safe
                                No it isnt.......... Basic Corrections Officers Academy and Basic Law Enforcement Academy are 2 seperate things, but they are both run by Illinois Universities PTI.


                                There are actually more counties that deputize their C/O's then those that dont in Illinois. Most of them are down state though. As far as the northern counties, Will, Cook, Dupage, Dekalb, Boone, Kendall and there are a few others all deputize their officers.

                                McHenry, Kane, Lake and a few more up here dont. Oh and Those counties report us C/O's as deputies, dont let them BS you. We get sworn, but arent "deputized" by the sheriff.
                                Last edited by M.C.S.D; 09-30-2006, 08:55 PM.

                                Comment

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