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  • #31
    Originally posted by Johnnyblade
    People like me? What am I like? You assume a lot detective. My Mt. Suribachi comment was an analogy relating to your reasoning. You weren’t supposed to actually think of how the event at Mt. Suribachi relates to the argument. I'm done with this. Happy Sunday to you sir.
    People like you that actually think that gender, race and ethnicity....dont count. An analogy to what.....educate me....who raised the flag on suribachi and how does that relate to the points I raised?? The detective assumed nothing...i responded to your statements .......i think u just didnt like what u saw in the mirror after you got called on what you said. Happy Sunday to you, Sir
    You cant arrest me...I know my Commandments!!

    Comment


    • #32
      With all due respect to all those involved in this discussion, I believe it would be advisable to agree to disagree. I wanted to spark intelligent conversation not instigate anger between opposing opinions. We live in the greatest nation in the entire world, past and present. We are free to discuss our viewpoints openly without fear of reprisal. Citybluesuit and Johnnyblade you both have very strong opinions and personal convictions; however, we must remember that we are on the same side and have the same goals. We just have different views on how best to reach the goal of protecting and serving the great citizens of Chicago. Is my assumption correct?

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Wildblue
        With all due respect to all those involved in this discussion, I believe it would be advisable to agree to disagree. I wanted to spark intelligent conversation not instigate anger between opposing opinions. We live in the greatest nation in the entire world, past and present. We are free to discuss our viewpoints openly without fear of reprisal. Citybluesuit and Johnnyblade you both have very strong opinions and personal convictions; however, we must remember that we are on the same side and have the same goals. We just have different views on how best to reach the goal of protecting and serving the great citizens of Chicago. Is my assumption correct?
        I dont think any one differs on how to protect and serve the citizens of chicago.....I think we all differ on when and how we have gotten or will be given the chance. The argument was made earlier to put aside all preferences and choose everyone solely based upon merit...in practice a great idea and probably the fairest. Although it was never done by the City it has been repeatedly implied (but never proven) that minorities were somehow provided with preferential treatment. I implored all involved that such was not the case and cited examples where veterans were actually provided preferences. THat struck a nerve because it was believed that entitlements were deserved, and when I applied I took advantage of those preferences and entitlements like any other veteran. The justification for receiving and continuing to receive those preferences suddenly embraced the same logic that other groups embraced when it came to preferences, it was believed that somehow it was due them. I merely pointed out the flaw in that and it enraged and angered some because it painted them in the same boat as that which they despise.

        I too tried a spark intelligent debate by identifying to an open mind just how similar everyone's quest is. We are not necessarily at opposite ends of the spectrum...our differences are more like a circle because in the end we all come around to wanting the same thing.
        You cant arrest me...I know my Commandments!!

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by cityblusuit
          We are not necessarily at opposite ends of the spectrum...our differences are more like a circle because in the end we all come around to wanting the same thing.
          This is truly insightful writing, sir, and absolutely true.
          For every one hundred men you send us,
          Ten should not even be here.
          Eighty are nothing but targets.
          Nine of them are real fighters;
          We are lucky to have them, they the battle make.
          Ah, but the one. One of them is a warrior.
          And he will bring the others back.

          Comment


          • #35
            to ctyblusuit

            I think you missed my whole point. You said that you are an African American officer correct. And I bet you were there to test on the first go around. If that is correct, you got the job because you wanted it. All I was trying to say is that by coaxing the minority population to test, is not going to get the CPD the best applicants. Maybe there are some people that exist that are not sure if they want to apply for whatever reason and later on it turns out that they are kick ***** cops, then good for them and I hope that they are my partner, but I guarantee waiting for these last people to come around in test will be on the bottom end of the scope because they didnt want it in the first place.

            As far as your position goes, I think it is great that you had military experience and used that to get hired. But that is irrelevant to me. I mean you seem like an intelligent person based on your posts, but as I said above, I am sure you were not in the last %10 of candidates to test.

            And regardless of all the minority issues, the department could still release the results stating whether you passed. The results wouldnt even have to include a date for the next step. I just like everybody else would still like to know if we are in the running.

            And if they cant release the results because they want to ensure that enough minority people will be included, that could possibly bump me out of the way just because I am not of the minority.

            Basically not releasing the results is saying that the department is trying to fill a quota by waiting for enough minority people to pass the written.

            Comment


            • #36
              Cityblusuit "I would never dispute that the process is being unfairly held up in an attempt to allow others to apply. You counter that it is racist. It is racist because it obscures your agenda. Now that you are the recipient of an action directed toward you because of your race you cry foul. The problem with racism is that NOBODY ever considers it a problem until it hits them square in the face and THEY see where THEY are wronged. "

              I am not crying foul necesarrily because I am white and the way things are being handled is affecting me. Instead I am crying foul on simply the way things are being handled. Regardless of what I am, what you are, or anybody else for that matter the system is not just; and thats what sucks. I fully agree that things have for a long time been unjust. There used to be a time( many many decades ago) where you could simply buy your badge and your promotions, and that was still limited to a select type/class of people. I understand that the city is trying differrent approaches to settling the score and achieving that "perfect balance" of races and sexes, it's just the way they are going about it. I cry foul now only because I have yet to deal with this issue because this is my first time testing with the city and I have not ran in to that with ANY suburban department I have tested for. I cry foul for everyone not just myself.
              To answer your question about what I know about the merit process, I am not entirely familiar with it and could not get into a debate about it. Maybe you would induldge me and educate me as to how it works. I would most likely guess that it is meant to help but still has its flaws, but I'm not sure.

              I'll go along with Wildblue and say that this is an issue that most of us will all agree to disagree. I have a feeling you will get a different answer everytime you ask a different person how they feel about the topic at hand, and thats almost to be expected. Although modern society has come along way interms of social movement and trying to move past race, gender, religious, and other differences we all can admit that we still have along uphill battle before conversations like these are a thing of the past and testing processes and LIFE in general are fair and just for all. I hope no offense was taken by anyone reading or participating in these post, as I did not mean to offend, but it has been interesting to hear views fom both sides and hope we can all learn from on another.
              -jcap

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by CPDis4ME
                I think you missed my whole point. You said that you are an African American officer correct. And I bet you were there to test on the first go around. If that is correct, you got the job because you wanted it. All I was trying to say is that by coaxing the minority population to test, is not going to get the CPD the best applicants. Maybe there are some people that exist that are not sure if they want to apply for whatever reason and later on it turns out that they are kick ***** cops, then good for them and I hope that they are my partner, but I guarantee waiting for these last people to come around in test will be on the bottom end of the scope because they didnt want it in the first place.

                As far as your position goes, I think it is great that you had military experience and used that to get hired. But that is irrelevant to me. I mean you seem like an intelligent person based on your posts, but as I said above, I am sure you were not in the last %10 of candidates to test.

                And regardless of all the minority issues, the department could still release the results stating whether you passed. The results wouldnt even have to include a date for the next step. I just like everybody else would still like to know if we are in the running.

                And if they cant release the results because they want to ensure that enough minority people will be included, that could possibly bump me out of the way just because I am not of the minority.

                Basically not releasing the results is saying that the department is trying to fill a quota by waiting for enough minority people to pass the written.

                I dont disagree with anything you said. I got the job because I wanted and along the way I used whatever I could in order to get in the door. My military experience is irrelevant to you because it serves no purpose in furthering your efforts to get on the PD. I totally understand that which is why I made the point I did. As time goes by you will se that the Chicago Police Department will periodically make dedicated efforts to specifically target and recruit certain types of officers to include, minorities, veterans, females, gays and lesbians for entry level and specialty positions. Am I as a minority and a veteran, and you as a female wrong to take advantage of efforts by the City of Chicago to increase our numbers or presence on those spots?? My opposition and my anger is driven by people who very carelessly and irresponsibly use buzzwords like "affirmative action" and "quotas" to imply that I got the job solely because of my race and accordingly someone else did not because of their race. EVERYONE hired by CPD was hired because they met the standard established regardless of race or gender. Further, when I speak of minorities I am not solely speaking of African-Americans...in this changing demographic of ours their are multiple cultures in Chicago for which minority representation is crucial. Chicago has a rapidly growing Asian and Hispanic population for which persons that can communicate in the appropriate language are in popular demand. The City has not officially said why they have delayed the process and they probably never will, but I assure you it is not to fill a quota!!!!

                The problem is that information on this forum is anonymously driven from what they heard from a friend of a friend who is the sister of a girl who has an ex-boyfriend who used to be the night Janitor at 11th and State but still keeps in touch with everybody on the night crew on 35th Street.

                Everybody is using speculation, conjecture, hearsay and guess work. The one fact I do know is that you have a mayor who has always publicly said that he wants a CITY workforce that reflects tha population of the city.

                To that end, when all of you submitted your paperwork did you or did you not VOLUNTARILY identify youselves by race or gender.

                Chicago has ALWAYS taken its time when it comes to selecting its public safety personnel. They have made a few mistakes but in general they have done pretty good by their choices. ANYBODY who knows why the city is taking so long will never put their name behind that assertion publicly. The mob mentality borne out of everyone's impatience, frustration and desire to get on with the process is not helped when the speculation is focused on an issue as divisive as race.

                Has it helped here?????
                You cant arrest me...I know my Commandments!!

                Comment

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