Ill. court OKs storing guns in car consoles

[cclawdog]

Oh thank you so much ChiTown DET

It would be real nice if for once...just once someone making a comment or posting an argument would just read what was posted before instead of picking apart snippets. On Oct 11 post I stated about "state of mind" of the "law abiding" citizen we encounter. Some one can be "law abiding" all they want, but everyone handles stress and outside stimuli differently..way differently. How am I as an officer supposed to know that you Mr. "Law Abiding" hasn't just heard that his wife may be cheating on him and is on the way to find out for sure or maybe you just lost your job or someone close to you just died. Things like these really affect people in ways you cannot imagine. 5FLHT you stated you were the victim of a crime and I feel for you and what you may feel as a sense of helplessness at being unable to prevent it. Being able to defend yourself IS a fundamental right and one I firmly support. But I've heard of and know of officers who have paid the price by NOT exorcising extreme caution encountering a citizen. So you may think I'm extreme for the means I deem necessary for ensuring my safety but BELIEVE ME...I..WE all want to go home at night to our own families just like anyone else and if that means you or anyone else for that matter are a little bent out of shape or need to spend time in the pokey cuz you wanna test IL CS..then guess what.. I will lose no sleep over it cuz anything is better than taking a dirt nap. Call you crazy but I am not alone in this.

[cclawdog]

If the gun were unloaded and locked in a case in the trunk of your car nothing would be done. If the case were on the seat next to you in the same manner, different story. I as an officer am allowed to remove from your person or proximity ANYTHING I deem a threat to me, my fellow officers, the PUBLIC SAFETY and you. If you think an officer is just gonna leave it to where you can get it then I guess you are gonna be teed all the time. Broken down or not the gun is still a threat (ever see an unloaded dismantled Glock reassembled and charged? Takes seconds) and how much of a threat is up to me to determine.

nothing about a gun being dismantled in a case there....

It would be real nice if for once...just once someone making a comment or posting an argument would just read what was posted before instead of picking apart snippets.

I never said it couldn't be on the seat next to you or in the trunk, only I was going to leave it within your reach.
PLUS...You CANNOT walk ANYWHERE of your choosing carrying an unloaded gun locked in a case. PERIOD. If you were on your way to a destination where you had a legitimate use for the gun (ie- the firing range) or on way back to your residence, then no big deal. But walking through a mall? That's a no no.

I don't need to cite anything, you need to read the IL CS on concealed carry cuz what you just described as your reason for having it on your person is considered concealed carry.
INTENT....this is what will determine your fate.

Don't propose that because you know what the IL CS says you are capable of applying it.

As far as going to my job with just keys..well guess what? THAT IS MY JOB! 48 of the worst of the worst everyday with nothing more than a set of keys a radio and a flashlight. Presumably the inmates are unarmed to but we all know that's not the case. But when I'm outside that facility you bet your bippie I'm carrying in full view or concealed cuz as an officer that is what the law says I can do. Sucks being a target.

[jeffIL]

Some interesting replies in this thread. Interpret it how you want I guess. I just want to caution some of the guys on here that really sound like you disagree with the way the statute is written, so you are just going to disregard it. I don't know how you operate on the street, but just be careful you don't jam yourself up over some bs arrest. I would suggest re-reading the UUW statute (as I just did) every once in awhile. Also some differences as to within city limits or in an unicorporated area. I'm not too well versed in the Wildlife Code. Not many hunters where I'm at.

[ccsd0601]

"you bet your bippie"

Never say that again!!

[cclawdog]

Sheriff's Deputy. I am a peace officer not just a corrections officer. I know what Chpter 720 IL CS 5 24-1 says. It does not suck to be me. I have the authority to carry 24/7 due to my status as a peace officer as per 720. Never in anything that I said would I have violated anything in that statute. In everything I presented the subject was neither under arrest nor were any guns confiscated. That was yet to be determined. but let's look at that "man purse" you described is designed to...and lets make this really clear so you know where you are wrong...conceal your firearm.

Lets look at detail of the Maxpedition Versi Pack model #0412
this is straight from their website:

Ideal for discrete CCW. Collapsible 32oz. Nalgene pocket. Better For Right Side Carry. Concealed Carry Bag
The long awaited JUMBO Versipack (#0412) fulfills the multitude of requests for (1) a larger Fatboy with more bells and whistles, and (2) an effective concealed carry system utilizing the Fatboy shoulder sling concept.


Point (2) The JUMBO's rear slip compartment is now equipped with large loop Velcro patches to accommodate our Hook & Loop Modular Accessories (e.g. #3501 Universal Modular Holster, sold separately). This allows the user to position their concealed carry firearm for a quick strong side draw or weak side cross draw.

This in no way reflects an exemption from UUW! Furthermore you keep passing up the point time and again so I will single it out to you:


except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:
(ii) are not immediately accessible;

You tell me in what manner that gun is not immediately accessible. You cannot articulate it to any reasonable person in the court of law. Broken down or dismantled does not mean inaccessible! There is no means that I can see to render that gun in the versi pack as inaccessible (which is why gun cases are designed to be locked). And as soon as the DA points out what the manufacturer states it's product is for..you are toast.

You don't like being defenseless then do something constructive like take your arguments to Springfield and petition your concern to the lobbyists.

Bottom line this thread was supposed to be about the glove box being used to transport a firearm...I think the whole argument falls on its accessibility to the owner.

[cclawdog]

Did I cite????

[cclawdog]

Never say that again!!

Trying to keep it clean brother

[ChiTownDet]

Don't usually have an agenda like this pushed in the Illinois Forum. With your 9 posts, it appears someone ran to whatever site you frequent and "called in the cavalry" to "straighten out those cops." You don't seem to read all that well. We will follow the Dept's policy and the opinion of the State's Attorney until told to do otherwise. As of right now, having that gun in a fanny pack or in the console of your car is an arrest. Quoting the ILCS and interpreting as you want is not going to change anything. Being this is Illinois, I see the wording of 5/24 being changed to define "container" before long. As long as I'm following Dept. policy (I have a better chance of losing $$$ in time off by NOT following policy than following it), you won't get a penny out of me.

Try walking up to the first P/O you see in the Loop and tell them "I'm legally carrying this gun in my fanny pack, right here," and let me know how much you will have to spend to prove your point.

People from these groups like "Open Carry" and the Illinois CCW group like to come on this board and argue their view with P/O's. We don't make the law, prosecute offenders, or write Dept. policy. You should be griping at your State Reps, Congressmen, and Senators if you want this to change. You are really preaching to the wrong people.

I have no problem with CCW permits in Illinois. I just have absolutely no confidence in the politicians in this state (or City of Chicago) of implementing or administering a CCW permit program. This is the State that gave funds to an 80+ man, 16 car, Police Dept. that was created to protect a broken swing set, and manned by gang members.

This whole thread kind of "took off" because someone, who is not a P/O, took offense, to a hypothetical situation, that I would hold onto his gun, for safety reasons, until a stop was completed, and then asked what I would do if I was in a different state.

I'm done on this thread..

[cclawdog]

So when you are in court defending yourself and accuse "unlawful" arrest, will you be defending yourself? Oh I hope so.

[cclawdog]

We will follow the Dept's policy and the opinion of the State's Attorney until told to do otherwise. As of right now, having that gun in a fanny pack or in the console of your car is an arrest. Quoting the ILCS and interpreting as you want is not going to change anything.

Whose making threats? You seem to be attacking me with your remarks and twisting what I wrote to fit your perspective. I was pointing out that you would most definitely have to have legal counsel as would I and wouldn't be as confident as you seem to be here of being in the right. Your grasp of the law is limited and therefore, as I would, need the expertise to be able to defend yourself adequately to avoid time in jail. I was NOT giving my OPINION of the matter at hand since you became involved with this thread and singled out my comments to attack. I was relaying what I know would happen to someone in a certain circumstance. I don't interpret the law, that is what the courts are for. As long as I follow the doctrine of my training and policies of my department (as stated above)you can't touch me. I would stand a better chance of getting suspended by NOT following those procedures than you will of getting my money. If there is EVER a question of whether or not I'm following proper procedure or if I needed to reassure myself I would MOST ASSUREDLY defer to a supervisor and let that fall on their shoulders. I don't go out of my way to harass anyone.

Furthermore, what does it say about you when you resort to the tactics you display? Pulling out dictionary definitions to "school me" I find to be childish display of you thinking you're my better.

I will say this on a final note...I don't disagree that as the law is written you don't have a legitimate beef and it definitely needs to be clarified. But attack those that make the law. And telling me to "follow statutes as they are written" in response doesn't change policies set forth above my head that tell me how to follow those very same statutes. It's not up to me to follow them as they are written. It's up to whoever makes policy to tell me different. DO you understand that yet? Take your arguments to Springfield where they will do more good for you and the average Joe.

[bankfraudguy]

...................

[cclawdog]

The only way you are gonna get answers is to ask questions. The only way to change the law is to vote.

[Oldskoolfan]

A good question would be how does one act when policy violates the law as written?

[ChiTownDet]

A good question would be how does one act when policy violates the law as written?

If you want to remain working, you'll follow whatever the higher ups tell you to do. We already violate Federal Law by not detaining illegal aliens for ICE, nor even allowed to inquire into alien status when we have reason to do so.

I like getting a check on the 1st & 16th. When the Dept. and/or SAO tells us what it wants done in this situation, We'll do it.

[benron]

If you want to remain working, you'll follow whatever the higher ups tell you to do. We already violate Federal Law by not detaining illegal aliens for ICE, nor even allowed to inquire into alien status when we have reason to do so.

I like getting a check on the 1st & 16th. When the Dept. and/or SAO tells us what it wants done in this situation, We'll do it.

CHITOWNDET,I KNOW CPD'S HANDS ARE TIDE WHEN IT COMES TO DETAINING ILLEGAL ALIEN'S BECAUSE CHICAGO IS A SANTUARY CITY AND AS LONG AS THAT IDIOT DALEY IS IN CHARGE OR ANYONE LIKE HIM,IT WILL ALWAYS REMAIN THE SAME,AND CPD WILL ALWAYS BE HENDERED FROM DOING THEIR JOB BECAUSE OF NOTHING MORE THAN POLITICS.