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Ill. court OKs storing guns in car consoles

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  • #46
    Originally posted by scotsmen View Post
    you can not carry a gun on you in the state of illinois, so for the life of me I will never understand why we always of civilians that buy cute little fanny packs, murse's, and hand bags and call it a legal firearms case and carry the gun around with them
    What Illinois Statute prevents this? If the fanny pack, etc is made as a firearm case, it would seem from everything discussed here, it would be legal.

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    • #47
      I think you are trying to argue that carrying a gun in a purse or fanny pack is "transporting." Transporting implies you are taking the weapon from point A to point B with the intent to use it at your destination (ie- hunt, target shooting at the range, gun shop appraisal or new purchase) or return from said destination. In the condition you describe (purse or fannypack) I would say it's concealed carry which is UUW in IL. Carrying a gun by a civilian either concealed or in full view is illegal unless properly licensed and authorized (ie-tan card holders for civilian security agents). Until a CCW law is on the books in IL you can try to argue it in court but my guess is you will lose.
      One Shot, One Kill. Anything else is just pu(ff)y!

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by scotsmen View Post
        but at the end of the day if you are not a p.o, deputy ect, you can not carry a gun on you in the state of illinois.
        Don't forget aldermen, and other city council members (I believe this counts for village/township, county, and state politicians, as well)! Aldermen (in Chicago) and the Inspector General (Village of Dolton) has Peace Officer status.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by scotsmen View Post
          but at the end of the day if you are not a p.o, deputy ect, you can not carry a gun on you in the state of illinois.
          Don't forget aldermen, and other city council members (I believe this counts for village/township, county, and state politicians, as well)! Aldermen (in Chicago) and the Inspector General (Village of Dolton) has Peace Officer status.

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          • #50
            In my defense I DID say "I think". Saying that... Case in point... say you got that "man purse" to carry your firearm in and you are say...entering Grant Park for ..say the Taste of Chicago. To enter you have to go through a check point where ALL bags large and small and say an officer (like me) checks your bag and..LO and BEHOLD!!! I find your gun. Now...and any officers out there feel free to answer up.. what do you think my reaction is going to be? Hmmmm...First...I order you not to move a muscle (more like "DON'T FUKIN MOVE") as I announce to fellow uniform officers GUN!!. You will most definitely be subdued and cuffed at least until we produce a badge and LEO credentials. If not..you tell me what happens next since you're so "in the know" about this type of thing. You can say you're transporting all you want.. but what happens after you're booked is between you your lawyer and the DA. I don't know I could be wrong but probably not. I've heard of IDOC officers getting hooked for just being out beyond the time allotted for them to TRANSPORT their weapon home.

            Bottom line ... it's really depends on the circumstances in how the law get INTERPRETED! by those who enforce and uphold said law.

            One more thing... as I told a previous poster...law abiding doesn't mean you are knowledgeable about the law. One would like to think so but as an officer I can't tell you are law abiding just by looking at you.
            Last edited by cclawdog; 11-20-2009, 07:54 PM.
            One Shot, One Kill. Anything else is just pu(ff)y!

            Comment


            • #51
              [QUOTE=05FLHT;2081382]Wow! I thought you only enforced the law. "Transporting," "carrying," "storing" and "justing keeping it in your vehicles enclosed console because you want to" would exempt a person from UUW, or so says the IL SC. However, to be in total compliance with the compiled statues, one must have the firearm fully enclosed within a case designed to house a firearm.

              Now, if I am not mistaken...an "original Tommy's Gun Pack," a "Maxpedition Versi Pack" (or man purse if you want to call it that), or any other enclosed case designed to house a firearm will exempt you from a WC violation. The law, is the law, is the law. If you are unfamiliar with current law, or need a refresher course I would seriously suggest that you do so. Otherwise, you may indeed open yourself up to financial penalty for an unlawful arrest of a law abiding citizen.
              QUOTE]

              This is what you wrote right? You didn't say the gun was broken down did you? I guarantee you will not just be "let go" because the gun is broken down in this "man purse" anyway.

              As far as innocent before proven guilty...THAT'S NOT MY JOB!!! That's what the court system is for. The scenario laid out (except for it being me as officer and locale) was exactly what happened. Go through my scenario again and tell me why I would be wrong for detaining you for bringing a gun to a public venue in the manner I proposed in the device of your choice. Broken down or not you are going to detained. Period. (keep in mind possession of a handgun in Chicago is STILL against the law, broken down or not, unless you are LE)

              Never once did I say you were under arrest. DO you Mr. Know it Law know the difference between detention and arrest? That had yet to be determined in what is called an investigation. After said investigation if it was determined you were transporting and CONCEALING a firearm illegally, well...then you'd be arrested. Then get a LAWYER cuz you are not one. Then you can take your case to the courts. I'm just doing my job and I don't see how I would be going beyond the scope of my duties with the scenario I laid out.
              Last edited by cclawdog; 11-20-2009, 09:18 PM.
              One Shot, One Kill. Anything else is just pu(ff)y!

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by benron View Post
                Chitowndet,you mean to tell me that if IL passed a cwp,on every traffic stop you would question every driver if they were carring a weapon? if they said no,what would you do then? would you pull them out and search their vehicle? if this is your attitude towards law abiding citizens,thats very scary,would you want your loved ones treated like this by another police officer,just imagine if you mother or father was stopped,and searched like some criminal,how would you feel? i believe if you treated the law abiding citizen of chicago like that, you would have alot of CR# filed against you,not to mention you would have a very,very long day,depending on the number of traffic stops.
                Yes, I would ask if they have a gun on them. Then I would keep that gun until the stop is over. A lot of states that have CC have in the law that the person has to advise the officer if he is carrying a gun. Being that it's a moot point right now (as there are no CWP in Ill now), if I found a gun, they would get locked up. Very, very few stops I make are for traffic, most are investigative stops, so as long as they take, they take. Each situation dictates what happens.

                You do assume a lot about me. And as far as CR's, we all get them and if the city wants to take baseless CR's, I'll just keep answering them instead of being on the street working, or I'll get time and a half to answer them. No sweat off my back.

                Comment


                • #53
                  O.Com went nuts with the post...
                  Last edited by ChiTownDet; 11-21-2009, 02:55 AM.

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                  • #54
                    See above..
                    Last edited by ChiTownDet; 11-21-2009, 02:59 AM.

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                    • #55
                      ................
                      Last edited by ChiTownDet; 11-21-2009, 03:00 AM.

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                      • #56
                        .................
                        Last edited by ChiTownDet; 11-21-2009, 03:01 AM.

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                        • #57
                          First off, I don't know you. You can't think that a P/O would conduct an investigation on the street that may have you going to jail while you stand/sit there armed with a gun. I will remove that gun until it's over.

                          Second, you assume that everyone with an FOID will be allowed to carry. If CC ever comes to pass in Illinois, I believe you will have to apply for a CC permit. And no one knows what that criteria might be for getting one. The FOID just allows you to purchase / own a gun.

                          How people are dealt with while carrying a gun will be determined by the policies set by the State's Attorney's Office and the Dept., just as it is in the "carrying in a fanny pack" scenario. We still haven't been given any guidelines on the "gun in the console" scenario. Until policy is given on those type of things, you will be an arrest in both of the those.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by ChiTownDet View Post
                            Yes, I would ask if they have a gun on them. Then I would keep that gun until the stop is over. A lot of states that have CC have in the law that the person has to advise the officer if he is carrying a gun. Being that it's a moot point right now (as there are no CWP in Ill now), if I found a gun, they would get locked up. Very, very few stops I make are for traffic, most are investigative stops, so as long as they take, they take. Each situation dictates what happens.

                            You do assume a lot about me. And as far as CR's, we all get them and if the city wants to take baseless CR's, I'll just keep answering them instead of being on the street working, or I'll get time and a half to answer them. No sweat off my back.
                            We will have to agree to disagree about this,the state of IL has always had these draconian type of laws on the books (handgun bans)which is nothing but a feel good law that hasnt saved anyone,and it seems to me that the unwritten rule in chicago is,if your not the police,an alderman or gangbanging thug,you better not get caught with a gun,and to all the law abiding citizens,the only thing you are good for is paying your taxes and possible being a victim,these are your choices. I believe king daley and his corrupt cohorts are more of a menace to the law abiding citizens of chicago than these domestic terrorist (gang members),the democratic party has run the entire state of IL in the ground.
                            Last edited by benron; 11-21-2009, 12:03 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              You gave me the mode of carry/transport (man pusre) and I gave what you can expect to receive from an LEO. What an officer does to you and your firearm is directly proportionate to the ease of access. If the gun were unloaded and locked in a case in the trunk of your car nothing would be done. If the case were on the seat next to you in the same manner, different story. I as an officer am allowed to remove from your person or proximity ANYTHING I deem a threat to me, my fellow officers, the PUBLIC SAFETY and you. If you think an officer is just gonna leave it to where you can get it then I guess you are gonna be teed all the time. Broken down or not the gun is still a threat (ever see an unloaded dismantled Glock reassembled and charged? Takes seconds) and how much of a threat is up to me to determine. I am not familiar with your case in DuPage. Post a copy I'd like to see what happened.

                              With the gun in the case on the seat next to you maybe the officer would just take it and ask you to open your trunk and place it there WHERE YOU COULDN'T GET TO IT. To me I would wonder why you would think you needed to have it on the seat next to you and wonder if it opens up probable cause to search you and your car.
                              One Shot, One Kill. Anything else is just pu(ff)y!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by 05FLHT
                                If it would make you "more comfortable" to take possession of a legally transported firearm during an "investigation," go for it.
                                CCLAWDOG pretty well summed it up..

                                It's not for confort, it's for safety. Why put quotation marks around "investigation?"
                                Then you can review the UUW statute and observe that the firearm is unloaded and fully enclosed in a case. Next you can then review the WC and observe that the case is obviously designed to house a firearm. Finally, to cover all of your bases, you can inspect the valid FOID card. Now what?
                                Don't know what "WC" is, but as of now, it would be an arrest.

                                Do you make the mistake that DuPage County made with John Horstman to the sum of $50K? Or, do you realize you have a lawful (I say lawful as the law has been followed to the letter) citizen, provide them back their lawfully transported firearm and wish them well on their way?
                                I would run the gun to see if it's stolen/registered. And as of now, I couldn't do that in Chicago without an RD# for UUW or Weapon Turn In and an Inventory # for that gun.
                                To bad Ms. Madigan will not offer an "official" position on the matter like WI got from their AG in regards to open carry. Let me ask you this though. How many people have been "convicted" of legally transporting a firearm? You may "hook em and book em," but every case of "legally" transporting a firearm has been dismissed.
                                Numerous people have been convicted of UUW in Illinois. And as a side note, even when they are not, every judge I've seen issues a C&D order on the gun.

                                One further note. I do understand that there will probably be more of a requirement for a carry permit WHEN IL starts to issue them, unlike VT and AK. I do not have a problem with training/education, giving fingerprints and waiting for a FBI background check...I've already done it and have a permit to show for it. It seems a majority of the other states have a different view of "lawful citizen" than the State of IL.
                                Nobody knows what that "lawful citizen" has going on in their mind. For that reason, they are losing the gun until I'm done with them. And as of right now, they are an arrest.

                                Again, you're jumping ahead and talking about permits that aren't issued, laws that haven't been enacted, and court cases that haven't been decided on..I also for see the State changing that one word in the UUW statute and closing the "gun in the console" loophole before granting CC.

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