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Ordering driver or passenger from vehicle

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  • Ordering driver or passenger from vehicle

    I remember reading case law a few years ago that said officers can remove the driver or passenger (and conversely can order them to get back in) from the vehicle on a traffic stop.

    It was also in a trooper legal update but I can't seem to find it. If anyone know what the case is please let me know.
    Perseverate In Pugna

  • #2
    Narco,

    I will try to get it in the am. We went over it at roll call about a month ago.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Narco View Post
      I remember reading case law a few years ago that said officers can remove the driver or passenger (and conversely can order them to get back in) from the vehicle on a traffic stop.

      It was also in a trooper legal update but I can't seem to find it. If anyone know what the case is please let me know.
      Piece o' cake.

      Pennsylvania v. Mimms (or Mimms v. Pennsylvania)
      Gimme a Diablo sammich and a Dr. Pepper, and make it snappy - I'm in a gotd**n hurry!

      Comment


      • #4
        This has to be one of my favorite methods of calming down an irate motorist or passenger. I usually talk to passengers, and when they get an attitude, I yank them out and politely explain my position to them on the side of the road. It's amazing how they change their tune when they are out of their comfort zone and standing one on one with me.
        Better to be tried by 12 then carried by 6.

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        • #5
          Maryland Vs. Wilson, also and it references the Mimms case.
          Here's a link to the actual arguement before the Supreme court..this is interesting reading.
          http://www.oyez.org/cases/1990-1999/...1268/argument/

          I also found several other cases regarding this type action.
          Hope this helps.

          Comment


          • #6
            lol, unfortunately that's all I do (interdiction). I was arguing with someone from the DA's office who said police can't arbitraily order the driver or pass from the car and I know that you can.

            I thought there was specific GA case law but if the one mentioned above is a USSC case that would certainly work.
            Perseverate In Pugna

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            • #7
              2nd time...can you post the other cases as well? for some reason i was thinking there was a ruling here in GA maybe 4-6 years ago. it dealt with police ordering a driver from the car w/ no suspision of criminal activity, just to conduct the stop.
              Perseverate In Pugna

              Comment


              • #8
                Narco, Here's a link to the Trooper updates
                http://www.gachiefs.com/News_TrooperLegalUpdates.htm

                This one may be the one you recall reading although the passenger has a warrant, the following court opinion is pretty clear on it's own.
                http://www.gachiefs.com/pdfs/Trooper...newsletter.pdf

                Below is a part of that.

                When police make traffic stops, a
                passenger, like the driver, is seized for Fourth
                Amendment purposes. Thus, the passenger
                may challenge the stop’s constitutionality. Until
                this decision, the Court had never squarely
                answered the question whether a passenger is
                also seized. The Court resolved the question
                by analyzing whether a reasonable person in
                Brendlin’s position, when the car stopped,
                would have believed they were free to terminate
                the encounter.
                The Court held that any reasonable
                passenger would have understood the police
                officers to be exercising control to the point that
                no one in the car was fee to depart without
                police permission. During a lawful traffic stop,
                an officer (as a matter of course) may order a
                passenger out of the car as a precautionary
                measure, without reasonable suspicion that the
                passenger poses a safety risk. “(T)he risk of
                harm to both the police and the occupants is
                minimized if the officers routinely exercise
                unquestioned command of the situation.”
                Brendlin v. California, __ U.S. __, 127 S.Ct.


                I ran across several others while doing some creative googling for about 30 minutes but did not save a link to them.

                Cannot seem to find a Georgia one just a lot of references to Mimms and Wilson.

                I believe Wilson is pretty clear

                http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/95-1268.ZS.html

                Also see this forum

                http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=108976

                Comment


                • #9
                  Narco, a couple of us are going to the Cobb traing cntr. in Feb. for this course
                  http://www.patc.com/training/detail.php?ID=12583558
                  do you know anything about it?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    never heard of PATC but looks like it might be good. ive been to lots of HIDTA classes and to Desert Snow Phases 1-3. i'll be at the NCEA conference in Feb in Gwinnett.

                    Thanks for the links. If you happen to find any others I'd love to see them!
                    Perseverate In Pugna

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Anyone have information on getting the Passengers ID

                      Couple of us were having a discussion about requiring the passenger to provide ID on a equipment violation traffic stop.

                      I said that they werent required, but you could still ask.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        yeah, you can ask but can not demand it from the passenger unless you have some RS that he is involved in something. it all depends on how you ask though =)
                        Perseverate In Pugna

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I always state that I "need to see your ID too". In the rare chance they ask if they have to, I tell them no.

                          I always want to tell them they are free to leave on foot if they have a problem, but I don't like write ups.
                          Better to be tried by 12 then carried by 6.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by unc25 View Post
                            Anyone have information on getting the Passengers ID

                            Couple of us were having a discussion about requiring the passenger to provide ID on a equipment violation traffic stop.

                            I said that they werent required, but you could still ask.

                            I normally do not ask for passenger info unless there was something that drew them to my attention. I would acknowledge their presence speaking to driver, or that passenger, a name would come out. Then I would just make a note in the computer if needed.

                            A guy that used to work for us told me that he would always get everyones ID. If passengers asked him why, he would tell them that it was a security measure that he does since 9/11 (even though he was a rookie and this was last year).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GeorgiaDeputy View Post
                              I always state that I "need to see your ID too". In the rare chance they ask if they have to, I tell them no.

                              I always want to tell them they are free to leave on foot if they have a problem, but I don't like write ups.

                              When I get to the passenger and ask for ID they usually ask, what for? or If they ask if they have to I just tell them that I want to make sure they are not wanted on America's Most Wanted.

                              It lightens the situation and they usually comply...aleast for me.
                              "People may not know what we say here tonight...but by God they'll remember what we do"

                              Comment

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