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  • Garbage Man
    replied
    go right ahead

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  • natejpg
    replied
    Thanks so much Garbage Man. After I left I was thinking why did i back off and say that I'd consider it a direct order. That's definately not what I would have done in that situation. I have another one I'd like your opinion on my answer can I PM you?

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  • Garbage Man
    replied
    You failed to answer that question correcty because you just went to the Sgt which frankly did not need to be done at all. What you did not do is consult the officer in question to find out what was going on and tell her that you would be willing to be a witness if she needed one.

    Going to the Sgt shows lack of leadership on your part. He is the SGT. so you mindlesly go to him as he is in charge. But you should know he is not goign to tell you to make a report, so then you show a lack of character by letting him tell you to back off. You should have known thats what he would do and by doing it you showed you take the easy road. Dont go to the person who may get you involved in a drawn out situtatuion that could put your career on the line. Instead go to the offender let him know you cought him in the act but arent going to do anything about it. So you now become a co conspirator.

    What if you see your FTO beat the heck out of somebody for no reason? Ask him if you should report him? If you saw a liquer store being robbed who would you let tell you what to do, the robber or the victim?

    If you want to become a cop, stop looking for the right answer and start looking for the right attitude. Build your character.
    Last edited by Garbage Man; 07-27-2008, 02:44 PM.

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  • barkalot
    replied
    There may have also been one other question of that type in the same oral board. I believe it may have been a scenario where I was still in training and that prior to going out on patrol, I smell alcohol on the FTO's breath.

    I answered that I would approach him about it and suggest maybe he's "too sick" to work that night.

    If he brushed me off, I would then report it to the sergeant because it's a safety issue for me, the FTO and everybody else we have contact with.

    Another good answer may have been that I would approach him and mention smelling "cough syrup or something" on his breath. Then follow up with suggesting he might be "too sick" to work.

    Either way, the idea I had was looking for a way to handle the situation on a personal level and in a way that leaves the FTO's dignity intact.

    If he won't allow me to do that, then I guess I have to do what I have to do.

    Now that I am thinking, there was another one where I had just graduated from the academy and I go to a party at a friend's house. At some point, I look across the room and see what looks like my friend snorting a line of cocaine. What do I do?

    I answered that first if all, that I do not have friends like that, but for the sake of argument I would realize that I am not a police officer just because I graduated from an academy. My meaning was that I am not necessarily bound by any kind of code of ethics or department policy.

    I then stated that I would first ask my friend about it, because people do stupid things at parties, especially after drinking and he could have been snorting a Pixie stick.

    If I found it it was cocaine, our relationship would definitely change. If he showed remorse and a desire to change (like maybe claiming he is addicted), I would help him get any help he needed.

    Anyway, sometimes I think they are looking for that balance between being a cop and reporting everything to a higher-up and being human and trying to solve the problem in a personal way.

    I scored over a 94% on that oral board, so I assume they liked some of what I said.

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  • natejpg
    replied
    Originally posted by barkalot View Post
    I had a question I felt was designed to see what kind of cop I would be.

    It was basically about me and another officer handling an incident together and him writing in his report that a piece of critical evidence had been in "plain sight", so he didn't need consent for the search. I know that it was NOT in plain sight.

    I answered that my first assumption was that the other officer had simply made a mistake of fact. I have myself been so busy with calls that they sometimes seemed to run together when I wrote my reports.

    I would assume he had made a mistake and would point it out to him.

    If he insisted he was correct, I would review any recordings, etc., which might be available, since I could have also made a mistake. If I was wrong, I would make the necessary corrections in my report.

    If I was sure of myself and knew that I was indeed correct, I would write my report the way I remember it and he can do it the way he remembers it.

    All in all, unless I have some type of evidence that he is writing a false report, there is nothing I can do. It's a job for the suspect's attorney.

    The point I am making is that you can't just assume there was sexual harassment going on. Like others have already said, you need more information.
    Thanks I never had thought about that and I probably wouldn't have thought that way for an answer. Does anyone have any more questions that wouldbe unique or difficult to answer?

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  • barkalot
    replied
    I had a question I felt was designed to see what kind of cop I would be.

    It was basically about me and another officer handling an incident together and him writing in his report that a piece of critical evidence had been in "plain sight", so he didn't need consent for the search. I know that it was NOT in plain sight.

    I answered that my first assumption was that the other officer had simply made a mistake of fact. I have myself been so busy with calls that they sometimes seemed to run together when I wrote my reports.

    I would assume he had made a mistake and would point it out to him.

    If he insisted he was correct, I would review any recordings, etc., which might be available, since I could have also made a mistake. If I was wrong, I would make the necessary corrections in my report.

    If I was sure of myself and knew that I was indeed correct, I would write my report the way I remember it and he can do it the way he remembers it.

    All in all, unless I have some type of evidence that he is writing a false report, there is nothing I can do. It's a job for the suspect's attorney.

    The point I am making is that you can't just assume there was sexual harassment going on. Like others have already said, you need more information.

    Leave a comment:


  • natejpg
    replied
    Thanks all this is a very complicated question that tells what type of officer you have the tendency to be. One that jumps to conclusions or one that gathers the facts of what you see. I just hope I passed this interview so that I can pass the PAT on Saturday. Should I call the agency HR rep that made the appointments to see if I passed if I haven't heard anything by friday at noon?

    Update: The Agency called me up and i didn't make it past the interview phase. I didn't fail bad i just didn't get high enough to pass is what they said.
    Last edited by natejpg; 07-24-2008, 06:34 PM.

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  • L-1
    replied
    Originally posted by natejpg View Post
    1- The articulation of you thinking it is sexual harassment is the interviewer telling you that you feel it is sexual harassment but then gives you no supporting evidence or even reasonable suspicion to verify that fact.
    2- The access was being blocked by the male Sgt. standing in the doorway.
    3- The reason you should answer this question is because we are playing a scenario out as a civilian in a job interview for police officer trainee and the facts given between both post on this subject is all the facts that i have. Sorry I couldn't give you more.

    Sorry I'm not trying to sound upset I'm just frustrated trying to figure out how to answer correctly this question that seems like a trick that just wouldn't turn out good anyway I look at it.
    I also see it as a trick question. They are trying to see if you will buy into their assumption of sexual harassment without further investigation. This could be sexual harassment, but in a male/female situation, it could also be a husband playing around with his wife, or a boyfriend joking around with his girlfriend. It could also be a sergeant doing his job by keeping a subordinate from walking into a room where the subordinate's spouse is in custody and being interrogated. You just don't know what you have here and can't give an intelligent answer without additional information.

    Nonetheless, let's go with the situation they presented you. I would contact the officer later and discreetly ask them what went on.

    1. If they say it was a mutual thing between them and the sergeant (they were just playing around) I would not worry about.

    2. If they say it was not mutual and what occurred meets the criteria for sexual harassment, but they say they were not offended and do not wish to report it, then you have to decide if you were offended (you too, can be the victim of a hostile work environment in this situation). If you were offended, report it to your Lieutenant or EEO Coordinator.

    3. If they say it was not mutual, what occurred meets the criteria for sexual harassment, and they were offended, then I would report it to my Lieutenant or EEO Coordinator.

    Sexual harassment is serious problem that can result in major penalties for those who engage in it, for supervisors who are aware of it and fail to take appropriate action to correct the matter and for the employing agency. However, care must also be taken to differentiate between harassment and mutually agreeable interaction between friends. There is a female officer that I have been close friends with for over 25 years and while on duty, we often took meal breaks together a couple of times a week. (After retirement we are still close friends.) She was always below me in rank but worked under a different chain of command. As part of our interaction we flirted outrageously with each other, our conversations tended to be rather risqué and sometimes our language would make a sailor blush. One afternoon our Assistant Chief happened to overhear one of our conversations. The smart thing would have been for him to walk over, ask if he could speak with her privately and check to see if everything was alright, or if she felt uncomfortable with the conversation we were having. Instead, he walked into my office and launched into a sexual harassment speech. In about three seconds she told him we were having a private conversation between mutually consenting adults that was none of his business and that he needed to butt out right now. He walked away rather embarrassed, because he acted first without gathering his facts. It's the same thing with the question they asked you in your oral. You need to know what you are dealing with first, before you act.

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  • shadowhaus
    replied
    I could see how the Sgt. may be creating a "hostile work environment" if it was an ongoing thing but I don't see how anyone could possibly make this a sexual harassment claim with just that information.

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  • LA DEP
    replied
    Originally posted by Berlioz View Post
    ....jus tell them that you would let another supervisor know of your observations in an annonymous manner...most policies will probably state that if you obs something questionable in temrs of ethics or sexual harassment, you shall (some good LAPD terminology right there, btw) report it. Thats what they want to hear, uncomplicate it.
    Thats how our policy reads......

    and 'third party' complaints get made all day.....sometimes even without the knowledge or consent of the person who the harrassment was directed towards.....

    Leave a comment:


  • Berlioz
    replied
    ....jus tell them that you would let another supervisor know of your observations in an annonymous manner...most policies will probably state that if you obs something questionable in temrs of ethics or sexual harassment, you shall (some good LAPD terminology right there, btw) report it. Thats what they want to hear, uncomplicate it.

    Leave a comment:


  • natejpg
    replied
    I answered: "I would approach the Sgt. and ask why the room was closed for entry or if it was." The Sgt. says to mind your own business. I then reply "I would mind my own business because i would take that as an official order from my superior" The Sgt. replies with mind your own business when confronted is what it seems like so take that as your answer when he replies to your asking about the room.

    Leave a comment:


  • natejpg
    replied
    Originally posted by shadowhaus View Post
    How in the hell is that "sexual" harassment???? And even scarier.......people would actually consider it to be sexual harassment.

    Is the Sgt standing in the doorway with their arms crossed while leaning against the door jam denning entry or was their hands out in a grasping motion saying "Honk, Honk"?
    I personally agree with you on your statement. The sad thing is even if he wasn't grasping and saying honk honk this character would probably still get a few days off without pay and the dreaded sensitivity training.

    Leave a comment:


  • natejpg
    replied
    Originally posted by L-1 View Post
    There could be many reasons (both innocent and otherwise) as to why someone's access to a room might be blocked. You need to first articulate why you think this was sexual harassment before you get a realistic answer.
    How was access being blocked? What did the sergeant say or do. What was the gender of the sergeant - male or female? What did the officer say in response? How long did it last? Why should we jump to your conclusion without all the facts?
    1- The articulation of you thinking it is sexual harassment is the interviewer telling you that you feel it is sexual harassment but then gives you no supporting evidence or even reasonable suspicion to verify that fact.
    2- The access was being blocked by the male Sgt. standing in the doorway.
    3- The reason you should answer this question is because we are playing a scenario out as a civilian in a job interview for police officer trainee and the facts given between both post on this subject is all the facts that i have. Sorry I couldn't give you more.

    Sorry I'm not trying to sound upset I'm just frustrated trying to figure out how to answer correctly this question that seems like a trick that just wouldn't turn out good anyway I look at it.

    Leave a comment:


  • 417Lt
    replied
    A good thing to know at an interview would be to know the title of the person who would be responsible for receiving SH complaints and work that tidbit into your answer. For example: in Ca. State LEA's it's usually the EEO (Equal Employment Opportunity) coordinator.

    Leave a comment:

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