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  • LASD FTO's

    Any other FTO's out here? I'm looking for some opinions on the "new breed" coming out of the jails right now. In the past 6 months I've had a 23 year old kid with less than a year out of the academy and a 45 year old with close to 7 years in the jails. So far the best one was the 23 year old. Had his head in the right place, wanted to be out here, and knew he was fortunate to be out and about. The academy was fresh in his head, and patrol school just helped remind him of what was going on.

    Also, what ****es you off the most about new trainees? My pet peeve are radio codes. Why can't a deputy who has been on the department for more than 3 years know simple every day radio codes?

    What do you guys have to say?
    Carpe Noctem

  • #2
    Also, what ****es you off the most about new trainees? My pet peeve are radio codes. Why can't a deputy who has been on the department for more than 3 years know simple every day radio codes?

    What do you guys have to say?
    I am a FTO with SDSO. Our jails are mostly staffed with "Corrections Deputies" now-a-days. The Deputy Sheriffs that have recently come out to the field have been from the Court Division. Apparently, that is where the new hires have been sent as of late.

    Pet Peeve? I don't really have one. I just don't like sitting in the cramped passenger seat!

    I am at a small station and don't get many trainees. The last two were age 23 (lateral from Fontana PD. Top notch!) and age 24 with no experience.
    Last edited by jato; 04-17-2007, 06:24 AM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by EMVAMPYRE
      Any other FTO's out here? I'm looking for some opinions on the "new breed" coming out of the jails right now. In the past 6 months I've had a 23 year old kid with less than a year out of the academy and a 45 year old with close to 7 years in the jails. So far the best one was the 23 year old. Had his head in the right place, wanted to be out here, and knew he was fortunate to be out and about. The academy was fresh in his head, and patrol school just helped remind him of what was going on.

      Also, what ****es you off the most about new trainees? My pet peeve are radio codes. Why can't a deputy who has been on the department for more than 3 years know simple every day radio codes?

      What do you guys have to say?
      There are also so much more resources available to Deps to prepare themselves. Just check the intranet. Examples of reports, codes, war bags, radio trfc. etc. Before, we had to hunt down all our info.

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      • #4
        Damn, Ive had about five years patrol experience and have been working in the jail for the past three years. Five years ago was when I was last on patrol (for a municipality). I'm about to go back out on the street into FTO and hope that my FTO doesn't hate training new guys....we all start somewhere don't we...didn't you??
        Moooooooooooo, I'm a goat

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        • #5
          sadly ,some folks "Aspire to mediocrity"-where I work, alot of recruits come out with the "I graduated the academy,the rest is easy street" attitude,and the suburban laid back environment doesn't help it- many just want to "survive" the FTO program,so they can "have a job"-you can tell the type- they do as little as possible ,memorize as little as possible, but have a big goober smile and shuck and jive when its EOW and they walk out of the station and are yapping away with their buds( geee,where was all that energy when I was asking you about formating a crime rpt or to make an obs on patrol).Push them ,push them hard and let them KNOW that they aren't going to get it easy- learning never stops and to survive this job you have to want to learn everyday.with my Dept,I know for a FACt that LAPD academy trains recruit officers in radio usage and verbage-no excuse for them to not catch on within say a week or 2!
          "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

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          • #6
            Originally posted by JSD73
            Damn, Ive had about five years patrol experience and have been working in the jail for the past three years. Five years ago was when I was last on patrol (for a municipality). I'm about to go back out on the street into FTO and hope that my FTO doesn't hate training new guys....we all start somewhere don't we...didn't you??
            Oh, I have nothing against trainees, far from it! I've spent the last 7 odd years as an FTO, and have had trainees who are now some of my best friends. We were all trainees at one time or another. What I am saying is that if you don't help your self, don't expect me to hold your hand and spoon feed you everything you need to know.

            Right now I work a slower station. (Done the ghetto gunslinger thing, want a sorta paid vacation for a while) We get some trainees who think coming out here will be easy, not as many hot calls etc. Well, here in sleepy hollow, we can slam the hell outta these guys with paper. We have the time and the patience to nit pick everything and expect perfection. It's easy to see who the deputies that wrote reports in custody, and those who ran from paper.
            Carpe Noctem

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Five-0fromSoCal
              There are also so much more resources available to Deps to prepare themselves. Just check the intranet. Examples of reports, codes, war bags, radio trfc. etc. Before, we had to hunt down all our info.
              No kidding. Not olnly that, but the jails and courts are full of deputies who LOVE to tell war stories, and tales of daring-do who would help these kids out. But too many of the kids don't want to bother with it till it's too late. I have 3 former radio car partners who are bonuses in custody and have tried very hard to help out new patrol bound deputies. They all say the same thing, only a small handfull of deputies are willing to take them up on their experience, let alone check out the good stuff on the intranet!
              Carpe Noctem

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              • #8
                please delete
                Last edited by ask80; 04-18-2007, 09:02 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by EMVAMPYRE
                  No kidding. Not olnly that, but the jails and courts are full of deputies who LOVE to tell war stories, and tales of daring-do who would help these kids out. But too many of the kids don't want to bother with it till it's too late. I have 3 former radio car partners who are bonuses in custody and have tried very hard to help out new patrol bound deputies. They all say the same thing, only a small handfull of deputies are willing to take them up on their experience, let alone check out the good stuff on the intranet!


                  i work gangs. whenever i work o/t in custody, i always tell the guys to come out with us and play. no games. just learn and have a good time. only one has taken me up on my offer. probably cause i knew him before he got on the job.

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                  • #10
                    That's so typical Five-O. I understand the pull of easy OT, hell I did it back in the day, but I also managed to do a ton of ride alongs. These guys and gals are in for a shock when they come out!
                    Carpe Noctem

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                    • #11
                      As a past FTO and current patrol sergeant, I hope you don't mind my two cents. Some officers/deputies just don't can't accept the validity of working through an FTO culture which was established in the 50's in the year 2007. No offense to LASD, but I've heard many FTOs still treat trainee like @*#& while they're in the program, ie: not letting a trainee write his/her reports until EOW (and only then on their own time), not allowing a trainee C-7 inside with the senior and other deputies, etc... I hope this is no longer true, but as recently as two years ago I've heard horror stories, some from laterals. Aside from FLSA concerns, I've always found it hard to understand how one trains a new patrol officer to treat the public well, while treating the new officer poorly. I'm not implying you do this, but every organization has a culture. Is this part of your agency's?
                      "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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                      • #12
                        Every department has this mentality pulicords. There is always someone out there who believes in the "That's what happened to me so now it's your turn!" What I meant in my last post, was that custody guys would rather max out on overtime instead of going on ride alongs to help prepare them for patrol.

                        I have never treated a trainee in any way that I would not want to be treated. Do I expect them to perform their duties correctly and safely? Yes I do. Will I chew them out if necessary? You bet, but I will not do it in front of my peers, or his/her peers.

                        What I am trying to address here, are those deputies on my department, or any other department,where new deputies begin their careers in a custody or court assignment, who refuse to work to gain knowledge.

                        I'm not discussing methods of training used by the FTO's, but the attitude of newly assigned patrol deputies. Though maybe that will be a topic I will hit on later...
                        Carpe Noctem

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                        • #13
                          My stepson was a deputy with LASD for about five years. He did time in custody, court services and (finally) went to patrol. After working a couple of months (with an FTO he liked and respected) and doing well in his DORs, he resigned to start his own business. I was very disappointed, because I thought (as did many of his peers) that he had a good future in the organization. He left in part because he thought the training culture said one thing but demonstrated something else. Also, I believe he felt that after serving with the organization for the amount of time that he did, he was being treated as a "newbie." Perhaps he got a little spoiled (good days off and shifts), but most folks in his situation were. My organization had a stress type FTO culture when I started with it in the seventies, but changed over the last ten or fifteen years. I think this is a good thing. In part because it's so hard to find good trainees, but also because I believe law enforcement/government has been resistant to change. Trainees are stressed just being new to the situations they're in, artificially adding to it hasn't shown to really improve their ability to learn.
                          "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pulicords
                            My stepson was a deputy with LASD for about five years. He did time in custody, court services and (finally) went to patrol. After working a couple of months (with an FTO he liked and respected) and doing well in his DORs, he resigned to start his own business. I was very disappointed, because I thought (as did many of his peers) that he had a good future in the organization. He left in part because he thought the training culture said one thing but demonstrated something else. Also, I believe he felt that after serving with the organization for the amount of time that he did, he was being treated as a "newbie." Perhaps he got a little spoiled (good days off and shifts), but most folks in his situation were. My organization had a stress type FTO culture when I started with it in the seventies, but changed over the last ten or fifteen years. I think this is a good thing. In part because it's so hard to find good trainees, but also because I believe law enforcement/government has been resistant to change. Trainees are stressed just being new to the situations they're in, artificially adding to it hasn't shown to really improve their ability to learn.
                            with all respect to you and your stepson,and not speaking for LASD, the "problem" i see with this generation of recruits is that they have been in the " whats in it for me" for too long.when i started in L.E. ,now close to 20 yrs ago, everything was EARNED .only the toughest and the best made rank or specialized units- very rarely the wimps or crybabies.But alot of young people feel that as soon as the "off probation" light goes on, no one can tell them anything-they "know it all" and they "deserve"-period.At my Dept,I se alot of 1-3 yr folks complaining about what"is" and what"isn't",but they are not the one busting their humps out on patrol.They screw up,and get MAD when someone-senior officer or supv. tries to politely "correct them".It isn't until the IAD letter comes down and then they start to see that they DON"T KNOW EVERYTHING,but by then the are yapping about leaving to some other dept,with wide eyed fanstasy that they are somehow going to the "land of Oz"( of course we hear from them when they pass probation and realize that the grass isn't always greener).From buds who have done the TO thing with LASD- as patrol trainees and as FTOs-its part of the survival "game"- honestly 6mos to a 1yr is still NOT enough to teach someone everythin they should know to survive on the streets,especially if you've been doing it for 10-15 yrs and this new person hasn't a "clue" what they are getting into.FWiW,the jails are a controlled environment-even rolling up and down tawny suburban streets can catch you up into something far worse.Police work is a mindset and lifestyle.some folks adapt , some don't.its a job where you are under scrutiny 24/7.what job do you know for an avg citizen ,that you'll be scrutinized up to 20 yrs after you leave it?- FTOs can be held liable for what they trained their trainees on as far as 5 yrs after! your step son may have been a great guy and possibly a good deputy,but the world of a patrol officer sucks and is drab and hard sometimes, you have to take it as it comes-you are confronted with negativity all the time,looking for cracks inthe system will just make the job harder. This new generation of officers tend to be a selfish ,lazy and arrogant group of people-far different from when I came on.I sincerely believe that the "old way" of tough discipline and rigid FTO program could get them to understand that the world doesn't revolve around them and that things don't work out the way they want it.......
                            Last edited by DOAcop38; 04-18-2007, 01:10 PM.
                            "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

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                            • #15
                              I hope you guys dont mind if i post here. I am currently about to enter an academy and find your posts very informative about practices and areas of police work that I should know. I agree with your statement that people now-a-days are very self-centered. I too believe that either myself or other trainees need to be shown the right and wrong ways of doing something. I have always tried to live by the motto "it's not what i know, it's what I don't know".

                              I recently took a jail tour and Deputy shared with us that he wants to work in a drug enforcement role upon leaving custody. He also said that he takes advantage of every second he is in custody to talk to inmates about the streets. Learning slang terms for drugs, and new drugs that are appearing on the streets. As well as where likely places that people will hide their "stashes" on their person.

                              I look forward to joining your ranks someday and also keep in mind that if I don't know what my flaws/mistakes are, I won't learn from them.

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