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  • #16
    Originally posted by ask80
    yea LASD is quite restrictive. I know North Orange County SWAT carries 1911 cocked and locked on patrol too... geeezzz
    Its called "choice" and mgm't decision - somebody up in higher mgm't has an opinion ( like many -wrong-) about a certain weapon or types of weapons,and then out comes the "choice" you use on patrol. We had a Capt "decide" that officers should carry the GLOCK 19 on duty becuase "HE" liked the smaller GLOCK for his "hands"....

    sheesh who carries a ruger or beretta cougar anyways?
    and they are even selective on what kind of HK USP or P2000 you can carry...also only certain holsters are approved ( like 4 or 5 kinds) .
    well "I" carry the beretta cougar (.45 cal) darned good gun,just looks small when worn on duty (mainly an off duty and Plain clothes use gun) very tough and accurate ,but now out of production.and from what I've seen and heard of the S&W 4506 and 456 tactical- they are crap guns that aren't good "survivors" in the field( they are falling apart and weighty) - most of the officers I know with the city of L.A. are switching over to the GLOCK 21 .In terms of satisfactory accuracy and durability,I'd go Ruger over S&W also....

    the WTU sgt said cocked and locked is "unsafe"
    firearms requiring you to pull the trigger to take it apart (ie. glocks) are "unsafe" due so some incident that occurred at BC range... he said an officer from another agency discharge his weapon accidentally to take it apart...
    I've seen supposed "safe" weapons "ND" ( negligent discharge)-No such thing as "accidental discharge " as the weapons and ammo made in modern times are safer than ever before. This is, as usual , a training issue.its the dummy factor- put your finger on the trigger ,and fail to check to see if the weapon is loaded,you'll get an "ND" everytime-and the "days off" that follow from discipline.i've never been a big .45 fan and it took the Beretta 8045 ,not the 1911 variants to win me over( would like to one day own a decent Kimber though) .Short of issuing officers Heckler and Koch MP machine guns in 10 mm,I can't see any "perfect" gun for officers on patrol - each caliber and weapon has its pluses and minuses.Like any fellow officer,I all i care about is that my LASD counterparts have something that WORKs and keeps them safe when on duty........
    "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ask80
      yea LASD is quite restrictive. I know North Orange County SWAT carries 1911 cocked and locked on patrol too... geeezzz

      WTU sgt said cocked and locked is "unsafe"
      firearms requiring you to pull the trigger to take it apart (ie. glocks) are "unsafe" due so some incident that occurred at BC range... he said an officer from another agency discharge his weapon accidentally to take it apart...
      This is mainly ignorance when you have guys saying that cocked and locked is unsafe. You still have to activate the grip safety, deactivate the thumb activated safety and pull the trigger to get the gun to fire. I carry cocked and locked (the ONLY way a 1911 should be carried) and have never had a problem.

      Glock is just a trigger pull away from firing. No to mention the damn thing rattles if you shake it. I have one and it's in a drawer gathering dust.

      Revolvers have no safety and are just a trigger pull away from firing.

      Is the " and locked" M1911 pistol dangerous? A discussion of the safety features of the M1911 pistol" cocked


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      • #18
        Does anyone here carry an H&K USP 45 on duty? If so, how do you like it? Is there a certain type of ammunition that you have to carry in it? I've been told that LASD issues Winchester 147gr. (I believe Ranger SXT) for the 9mm. If you carry a .45 do you have to carry the same type of Winchester ammo (230gr. bullet?)?

        Sorry, one more question. Does LASD require that you carry the USP with the safety on while in double action in your holster?
        Last edited by sig fan; 04-03-2007, 04:27 PM.

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        • #19
          well i think cocked and locked is ok to carry for 1911s. i didn't make the rules up...

          and yes you carry the winchester sxt 240 gr +P for .45 ACP
          i believe you have to carry the HK with safety on, just like the beretta. why? i don't know...

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          • #20
            Originally posted by sig fan
            Does anyone here carry an H&K USP 45 on duty? If so, how do you like it? Is there a certain type of ammunition that you have to carry in it? I've been told that LASD issues Winchester 147gr. (I believe Ranger SXT) for the 9mm. If you carry a .45 do you have to carry the same type of Winchester ammo (230gr. bullet?)?

            Sorry, one more question. Does LASD require that you carry the USP with the safety on while in double action in your holster?
            I carry the HK USP 45. I love it. Policy says the safety must be on. What guys do is a different story. I've never heard of anyone being hit up on their safety.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by sig fan
              Does anyone here carry an H&K USP 45 on duty? If so, how do you like it? Is there a certain type of ammunition that you have to carry in it? I've been told that LASD issues Winchester 147gr. (I believe Ranger SXT) for the 9mm. If you carry a .45 do you have to carry the same type of Winchester ammo (230gr. bullet?)?

              Sorry, one more question. Does LASD require that you carry the USP with the safety on while in double action in your holster?

              I carry a HK USP 45 fullsize. With the taclight. It's huge. I'm big so it still fits my hand well. I love it. I can also carry a 1911 if I want... which I almost went with... but I just like the USP. There is no policy on how I carry it (I work for a large so cal PD). I currently carry it safety off decocked. I need to mess with my holster and get it to I can carry cocked and locked 1911 style. That would be safer and better than decocked-- because with the tac light holster the trigger can be pulled with the gun secured inside.... glocks are the same way with no safety.

              I will say the mags suck on the HK. A plastic back plate broke on mine and the spring ejected all my bullets out the back while I was on duty and getting into the passenger said of my unit. I'm going to buy some metal back plates

              My department has something like 900 plus guns on the approved list. 9/40/45 and for off duty 22/32/38/380 and the above. Carrying a 1911 is like joining a little elite club My next gun is going to be a Wilson CQB compact for plain clothes and off duty. Just banking those OT hours!
              Get low, get ground, get tactical! Sprawl! Sprawl! Sprawl!

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              • #22
                i was surprised when i was getting trained at BC about carrying the beretta with the safety on... i was like " are you serious?" hehe

                but i think LASD is close to approving weapon lights, or maybe they already have? at least we can carry lasers.. lol

                but i'm saving up for the hk p2000 dao.. i think it's a perfect size fit for me to carry on and off duty.

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                • #23
                  Ugh, glocks are not unsafe. That 'just a trigger pull away' is actually quite a process. The trigger itself has an inherent safety, and the 'firing pin' is NEVER fully cocked until just before the weapon fires.

                  I.e. when you chamber a round, the spring is 'half cocked'. The act of pulling the trigger actually completes the cocking process. Like a lot of guys my age, I grew up on the 1911, and still have 3 kimbers. Standard classic, cqb compact, and the rare high-cap .45 (can't remember the actual name atm). As for comfort and accuracy, there is no other .45 I would rather shoot/carry. However....


                  The glock is the best field gun ever. I much prefer the short crisp pull of your average 1911, but as far as durability, reliability, ease of use, and ease of cleaning, you cannot beat a glock...yet. My oldest glock I've put thousands and thousands of rounds through. Lots of crap rounds as well. The only thing I ever did to it was change the magazine springs, and I'm not sure it really needed it as I had zero feed problems.

                  I wish lasd went with the lapd issues now, because lapd not only issues the 22, they also allow you to carry the tactical (longslide version) of the .40. And that extra length makes a HUGE difference on the recoil. So you get to have your cake and eat it too. High cap larger caliber in a 9mm frame, with superb performance and reliability.

                  In closing, though I would carry glock over any other in the field, when you see me at the range, odds are I have a Kimber 1911 in my hand. Nothing feels better

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Five-0fromSoCal
                    I carry the HK USP 45. I love it. Policy says the safety must be on. What guys do is a different story. I've never heard of anyone being hit up on their safety.
                    Funny that -LAPD teaches just the "opposite" ( for beretta and S&W -decocking lever,aka "safety" off).Airport PD and Port PD carry sigs also and still,its safety off- keep your "nose picker" off the trigger,you don't have to worry about that "bang ! ooopps"
                    "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by DOAcop38
                      Funny that -LAPD teaches just the "opposite" ( for beretta and S&W -decocking lever,aka "safety" off).Airport PD and Port PD carry sigs also and still,its safety off- keep your "nose picker" off the trigger,you don't have to worry about that "bang ! ooopps"
                      I think it had to do with the old break front holsters we use to have. Too many guys shooting themselves in the foot holstering. If you holster right, it doesn't happen. We don't have those holsters anymore because of that. If you train, you're just as fast taking the decocker off safe as you draw though. I still keep mine hot even though.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Five-0fromSoCal
                        I think it had to do with the old break front holsters we use to have. Too many guys shooting themselves in the foot holstering. If you holster right, it doesn't happen. We don't have those holsters anymore because of that. If you train, you're just as fast taking the decocker off safe as you draw though. I still keep mine hot even though.

                        I remember those ( our dept tried them also for a while) supposedly "better" than the Basic borderpatrol model issued by LAPD-NOT.when they wore down it was easy to take the Berettas from the holster(sitting down in a patrol car could "pop" the gun out -A former Dep Marshal named Alvarum (SP?) used to train County Police and LAUSDPD personnel who used that holster how they could be disarmed in one hand movement by a "citizen" passing them,thus defeating the "safety" mechanisms.compared to LASD though( and everyone else) it took LAPD alot longer to "officially" approve retention holsters for their semi autos-alot of officers from my time still use their issued borderpatrolmen and I even see a few old timers creeping about with wheel guns in clamshell holsters...
                        "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

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                        • #27
                          Anyone here shot or carried the S&W P99 in .45? (Or any other Smith in .45 for that matter) What is there reputation for durability? Accuracy? etc. I'm not sure, but I would think that the S&W P99 would be approved by LASD for carry. Anyone know for sure?

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                          • #28
                            I know you're asking about S&W, but I would go with HK if you're going to carry a .45. We always were told by the range staff, don't buy S&W for autos. They make good revolvers. Some of my buddies have the Smith. I don't like it. Guys that have a .45 usually carry the HK. Only seen a couple of guys with the Smith.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Five-0fromSoCal
                              I know you're asking about S&W, but I would go with HK if you're going to carry a .45. We always were told by the range staff, don't buy S&W for autos. They make good revolvers. Some of my buddies have the Smith. I don't like it. Guys that have a .45 usually carry the HK. Only seen a couple of guys with the Smith.
                              What about carrying a .45 off-duty? I wouldn't think you would really want to carry the H&K off-duty.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by sig fan
                                What about carrying a .45 off-duty? I wouldn't think you would really want to carry the H&K off-duty.
                                LOVE MY BERETTA 8045! I'm 6'2" and can "fit " that sucker in my fronts pants pocket with little probelm ! -other than that stick with your "sig" in a fanny pack of pancake holster or a compact GLOCK;unless you are buying the smaller S&W semi autos ( in 9mm ,like the 3913 or 908,910 ) don't waste your time with anything big bore S&W unless its a revolver..........
                                Last edited by DOAcop38; 04-14-2007, 09:03 PM.
                                "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

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