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Non POST participatingpolice departments

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  • Non POST participatingpolice departments

    I have a few question regarding police departments that are not POST participating.

    What causes them not to be POST participating? Is it the training the officers receive? Is there a minimul level of something in equipment or insurance that can keep them from being POST?

    How does that status effect the department as a whole?
    "Get this and get it straight! Crime is a sucker's road and those who travel it wind up in the gutter, the prison, or the grave. There's no other end. They never learn."

  • #2
    If they aren't POST-certified, they aren't a police department in California.
    Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

    I don't think It'll happen in the US because we don't trust our government. We are a country of skeptics, raised by skeptics, founded by skeptics. - Amaroq

    Comment


    • #3
      Copied from here http://www.post.ca.gov/about/

      What is POST?


      The Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST) was established by the Legislature in 1959 to set minimum selection and training standards for California law enforcement. The POST organization, with more than 130 staff members, functions under the direction of an Executive Director appointed by the Commission.

      POST funding comes from the Peace Officers' Training Fund (POTF). The POTF receives monies from the State Penalty Assessment Fund, which in turn receives monies from penalty assessments on criminal and traffic fines. Therefore, the POST program is funded primarily by persons who violate the laws that peace officers are trained to enforce. No tax dollars are used to fund the POST program.

      The POST program is voluntary and incentive-based. Participating agencies agree to abide by the standards established by POST. The more than 600 agencies in the POST program are eligible to receive the Commission's services and benefits, such as job-related assessment tools, research into improved officer selection standards, management counseling services, the development of new training courses, reimbursement for training, and quality leadership training programs. POST also awards professional certificates to recognize peace officer achievement and proficiency.


      I have never seen a NON POST department, but it looks like it is possible. What agency are you talking about ejay?

      Comment


      • #4
        Well I went down the agency page clicky clicky and saw that there are indeed municipal police depatments that were not POST participating.

        Most on the list were probation, and University. However there were a few city departments such as Citrus Hights Police, Dena POint Police, Elk Grove Police, Isleton Police, San Ramon Police, Sante Fe Springs Police, Winsor Police, and Yucaipea Police.

        Those are the named city police departments. Not included were probation, coroner, medical examiners, DA, harbor patrol, college police, University security, University Public Safety, certain park rangers, and high school police.

        I remember once seeing a municipal police website (non POST) that stated that they had one uniformed officer, and the rest of the force consisted of plain cloths city council members responding to calls in marked units.

        Just wanted to know why some departments choose not to be POST participating. Maybe they are anti Union? Who knows.
        "Get this and get it straight! Crime is a sucker's road and those who travel it wind up in the gutter, the prison, or the grave. There's no other end. They never learn."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ejay
          Well I went down the agency page clicky clicky and saw that there are indeed municipal police depatments that were not POST participating.

          Most on the list were probation, and University. However there were a few city departments such as Citrus Hights Police, Dena POint Police, Elk Grove Police, Isleton Police, San Ramon Police, Sante Fe Springs Police, Winsor Police, and Yucaipea Police.

          Those are the named city police departments. Not included were probation, coroner, medical examiners, DA, harbor patrol, college police, University security, University Public Safety, certain park rangers, and high school police.

          I remember once seeing a municipal police website (non POST) that stated that they had one uniformed officer, and the rest of the force consisted of plain cloths city council members responding to calls in marked units.

          Just wanted to know why some departments choose not to be POST participating. Maybe they are anti Union? Who knows.
          Isn't San Ramon a contract city of Contra Costa County Sheriff's Department? Contra Costa participates in post.

          Comment


          • #6
            I am not sure. Here is th elink to their department website. San Ramon Police

            I did notice though that a few of those city deparments had been newly formed after ending a county contract. Only a few though. Perhaps they have yet to be POSt participating. The others seem to have been doing what they do for some time.
            "Get this and get it straight! Crime is a sucker's road and those who travel it wind up in the gutter, the prison, or the grave. There's no other end. They never learn."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ejay
              Well I went down the agency page clicky clicky and saw that there are indeed municipal police depatments that were not POST participating.

              Most on the list were probation, and University. However there were a few city departments such as Citrus Hights Police, Dena POint Police, Elk Grove Police, Isleton Police, San Ramon Police, Sante Fe Springs Police, Winsor Police, and Yucaipea Police.
              Yes Citrus Heights, Elk Grove, and San Ramon PD are contract cities in their counties. CHPD and EGPD are in the process of forming their own PD's and once they take over they will become POST agencies (I have an inside source of info there). The San Ramon city council just voted two weeks ago to form their own PD but that's all they've done. The council still has to vote on an amended budget to pay for the changeover (I have a C.I. there too ). I suspect once SRPD goes on its own they'll become a post agency.

              The other city PD's on the list are also contract cities:

              Dana Point is a contract city of Orange County SO.
              Santa Fe Springs PD contracts with City of Whittier so they may rely on Whittier's POST certification.
              Windsor PD contracts with Sonoma SO
              Yucaipa PD contracts with San Bernadino SO

              I'm pretty sure only 830.1, 830.2 PC and maybe 830.3 PC police agencies can participate in POST. Corrections, probation, college, school police departments, and private public safety departments derive their authority from under other penal code authorities. I could be off on that though. I notice some campus PD's are POST agencies.
              Last edited by LeeRoy; 06-04-2006, 11:21 PM.
              If you see me running try to keep up!

              Comment


              • #8
                Whoa, I thought San Ramon through CoCoCo Sheriff was POST certified

                Those agencies that are not POST certified (small handfull) do mirror POST requirements. Sample of who is not:


                Alameda County District Attorney (not a POST participating agency)
                Alpine County District Attorney (not a POST participating agency)
                American River College Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Azusa Pacific University Campus Safety Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Biola University Campus Safety Department (not a POST participating agency)
                CA Attorney General (not a POST participating agency)
                CA Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation (not a POST participating agency)
                CA Department of Justice, Crime and Violence Prevention Center (not a POST participating agency)
                CA Governor’s Office of Criminal Justice Planning (not a POST participating agency
                CA State Public Defender (not a POST participating agency)
                Calaveras County Coroner (not a POST participating agency)
                California Criminalistics Institute (not a POST participating agency)
                California Institute of Technology Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Chapman University Department of Public Safety (not a POST participating agency)
                Citrus Community College Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Citrus Heights Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Claremont College Department of Campus Safety (not a POST participating agency)
                Concordia University Department of Campus Safety and Security (not a POST participating agency)
                Dana Point Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Danville Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
                De Anza College Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
                artment
                Elk Grove Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
                El Rancho Unified School District Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Fresno City College Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Gavilan College Campus Security Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Isleton Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Long Beach Unified School District Safety Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Los Angeles County Probation Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Los Angeles Department of Transportation Investigations (not a POST participating agency)
                Loyola Marymount University Office of Public Safety (not a POST participating agency)
                Mills College Department of Public Safety (not a POST participating agency)
                Moorpark College Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Occidental College Department of Campus Safety (not a POST participating agency)
                Orange County Auto Theft Task Force (OCATT) (not a POST participating agency)
                Orange County Probation Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Pacific Union College Department of Public Safety (not a POST participating agency)
                Pacifica Police Department
                Pepperdine University Public Safety Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Placer County Probation Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Plumas County District Attorney (not a POST participating agency)
                San Bernardino County Coroner (not a POST participating agency)
                San Diego County Medical Examiner (not a POST participating agency)
                San Diego County Probation Department (not a POST participating agency)
                San Joaquin County Probation Department (not a POST participating agency)
                San Ramon Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Santa Clara University Department of Campus Safety (not a POST participating agency)
                Santa Fe Springs Police Services (not a POST participating agency
                Sierra County District Attorney (not a POST participating agency)
                Sonoma County Probation Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Stanford University Department of Public Safety (not a POST participating agency)
                Tulare County Probation Department (not a POST participating agency)
                University of La Verne Campus Safety Department (not a POST participating agency)
                U.S. Attorney for the Central District of California (not a POST participating agency)
                University of San Diego Public Safety Department (not a POST participating agency)
                University of San Francisco Public Safety Department (not a POST participating agency)
                University of Southern California Department of Public Safety (not a POST participating agency)
                Ventura Harbor Patrol (not a POST participating agency)
                Walnut Valley Unified School District Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Whittier College Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Windsor Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Yucaipa Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
                Last edited by sgttom; 06-05-2006, 10:51 AM.
                ''Life's tough......it's tougher if you're stupid.''
                -- John Wayne

                Comment


                • #9
                  There must be some benefits, because everybody panics if any of the dispatchers fall behind on their classroom hours for compliance.

                  I can only imagine what hoops sworn peeps have to jump through.
                  Molly Weasley makes Chuck Norris eat his vegetables.

                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    For most departments it's all about the $$$$$$. POST reimburses training expenses and other monies. It's easier to let POST pay for the employees training than to have to pick up the cost.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Judging by the number of agencies I recognize as absent from the list on the POST website, I don't think it's very recent. In five seconds of looking I saw that Orinda, Lafayette, Dublin, Oakley, and others are missing. Although those are all contract cities like San Ramon and Danville which show up as non-participating. CoCo Sheriff does all the training for those contract cities, with the exception of Dublin which is Alameda County SO. So I bet that POST accredidation doesn't extend to satellite agencies as long as the main one is POST certified because contract agencies are basically just fronts for the County SO, just different uniforms and cars.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Also remember a large number of those "agencies" are not actual law enforcement agencies, rather campus security departments. UCPD and Cal State Univ. PD are full fledged PD's. However the only private four year colleges/universities in California that have actual POST certified police officers is Stanford University (sworn in as Santa Clara County Deputy Sheriffs) and the University of the Pacific (sworn through Stockton PD). The rest are security. They might have flashy websites or wear uniforms that look VERY similar to real police, but they are not. The security departments sometimes have MOU's which give them some powers, but the security guards are not police officers nor are they POST certified. Rather they are required to get guard cards the same as someone who works security at a mall or office building.

                        There are are some bogus police departments in the state. LASD has been investigating the "San Gabriel Valley Transit Authority Police Department." Basically this "PD" had one or two handicapped transportation vans run out of an auto body shop. Somehow they set up their own police department:

                        http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...-pe-california
                        Last edited by SoCalFed; 06-09-2006, 09:04 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yeah, I heard about the transit police. Loopholes loopholes loopholes. Funny how some mob guy from another country can become budy buddy with this guy and suddenly become a "commissioner" what ever that means.

                          USC may be campus security, but they are peace officers while on duty, and they do not have to carry security guardcards. They patrol the area's surrounding the campus (off campus property) and respond to call for service that come in via the 911 system of the area.

                          The agencies I was asking about were the city municipalities. Like I said above, I can't remember what city it was, but the website said that untrained city council members (armed) patroled in marked units and responded to calls when the regular patrol officer (yup, only one) was off duty. Maybe it was an Eastcoast thing. I heard that some cities use a constible during the day, and the Sheriff at night. Maybe some cities do the same, but at night it is the council members.
                          Last edited by ejay; 06-10-2006, 12:58 AM.
                          "Get this and get it straight! Crime is a sucker's road and those who travel it wind up in the gutter, the prison, or the grave. There's no other end. They never learn."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ejay
                            USC may be campus security, but they are peace officers while on duty, and they do not have to carry security guardcards. They patrol the area's surrounding the campus (off campus property) and respond to call for service that come in via the 911 system of the area.

                            USC is a private university that operates under a MOU which gives them limited powers while on-duty. Also, I cheked their website and it appears that they do need a guard card and fireams permit...

                            From the USC website for Public Safety Officer positions:
                            Minimum Qualifications: .........and possess the State of California Patrol Persons and Firearms permits.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hot damn, I stand corrected. They do need a guard card. I wonder why. They aren't under a private patrol operator.

                              I hope they pay well, cause getting a basic POST and not going to a municipal department sooner or later would be a waste IMO.
                              "Get this and get it straight! Crime is a sucker's road and those who travel it wind up in the gutter, the prison, or the grave. There's no other end. They never learn."

                              Comment

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