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Off-Duty Probation officer Concealed carry

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  • Off-Duty Probation officer Concealed carry

    Do other Deputy Probation Officers carry off-duty? According to 12027 PC Peace Officers are exempt from needing a CCW. Just curious as to what Police Officers think about this.

  • #2
    Over the years there have been several ****ing contests over this and I believe it was finally settled in court. The last I heard (and it's been several years so things could have changed) - probation officers who are designated as peace officers may only carry on duty if authorized to do so by their agency. However, they may carry off duty with or without permission.

    I had a friend who was a probation officer with an agency that prohibited their personnel from being armed while on duty. She jokingly told me at start of watch, every one went to their lockers to disarm themselves for duty. At end of watch they went back to the locker rooms to arm themselves for the trip home.

    In this matter, the court ruled that an employing probation agency had the right to regulate its officers' on duty conduct (such as prohibiting their carrying weapons). However, the court also ruled that the agency had no right to prohibit off duty carry. The logic here was that the right to carry was granted by an act of the legislature and a goverment agency does not have the right to administratively deny its employees rights already granted them as a matter of law.
    Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

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    • #3
      Ventura County, Ca. Probation Officers cannot carry at all.
      "There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter." -Ernest Hemingway

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      • #4
        There are 2 units in Ventura County that are armed. Also, check 12027PC on the law on who is allowed to carry without a permit.

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        • #5
          Damn good idea if you ask me

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          • #6
            What's a good idea?

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            • #7
              I'm a Probation Officer in Northern California. Our entire department is armed, Glock 22 .40's. I'm simply amazed that there is still a debate whether Probation Officers should be armed or not. Are you kidding me?? Last time I checked, EVERY PERSON I COME IN CONTACT WITH IS A CONVICTED FELON...many are past parolee's that have re-offended and for some ridiculous reason have been placed on probation again. Every home I visit I've come across what we call here the "3 for 1" deal. I come across two unknown probationers or parolee's that I had no idea were in the home. Who knows if they're a parolee at large looking at going back for a long time. They have no idea I might be doing just a routine, "how are things going?" visit with my probationer. How many of our clients haven't slept for 7 days when we visit due to their current "tweak" run with meth?? Any danger there??
              Anyway, I'll stop ranting and raving. I'm just amazed that departments are choosing to send their officers out in the field unarmed. I'm armed from the moment I step out my front door to the moment I get home...and off-duty. I'm not a gung-ho, cowboy officer either...I carry concealed, I treat my probationers with respect...I just want to go home to my family every night. Regarding off-duty carry, it's up to your department Chief. Considering Probation Officers have the power and repsonsibility to recommend and send defendants to prison, I'm a firm believer in off-duty carry as well. I don't want to be out for dinner with my wife and run into a parolee that has had 10 years to think about the Probation Officer that sent him to prison...if you know what I mean. I can walk without eyes behind my back in my community due to how I treat probationers...but the reality is we work with the worst of the worst...ALL THE TIME.

              Be safe out there. Sorry for the long response. I just think the arming of P.O.'s is a no-brainer.

              jdlong

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              • #8
                Originally posted by kaiden
                Some counties will allow probation officers to be armed.....while others are very strict. But, a law passed in CA that all Arson Investigators can CCW. Hmmmm I didn't know "fire" could shoot back...

                I attended a training class up in San Luis Obispo- Advance officer Training. There were 35 Arson investigators, some had never fired or handle a gun before. They came in with their issued...Glock .40 caliber, brand new right out of the box. Brand spanking new.....

                In my opinion....all probation and parole officers should be packing at all times....."mandatory" God bless the ones that are not authorized to carry.

                "In god we trust," the rest we run NCIC.
                No doubt about it...God bless any officer (Probation, Parole, etc.) that works with our "gems of society" unarmed!! As I said in my first post, I'm simply amazed that there are Probation Departments in our nation that are choosing NOT TO ARM their P.O.'s!! Last time I checked, I enter the homes and serve warrants on convicted felons and parolees daily. 100% of my contacts are with felons...many with 148 and 242 history. You've got to be NUTS to execute a search, warrant, etc. on a convicted felon or parolee's home (a.k.a trailer) unarmed!! Lord knows who else you'll run into as well. We always come across the "mystery parolee" or probationer in the back room as we clear the house!

                I'm armed from the moment I leave my house to the moment I get home...and off-duty. I'm also very lucky to work closely with my fellow S.O. Deputies and City Officers regularly. I wonder if they'd be willing to go 10-15 with one of my felons UNARMED???!!!! Crazy stuff. Hope Probation's "Top Brass" wake up and smell the coffee. BE SAFE. Thanks for the reply.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Carlson18
                  There are 2 units in Ventura County that are armed. Also, check 12027PC on the law on who is allowed to carry without a permit.
                  They all should be.
                  "There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter." -Ernest Hemingway

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                  • #10
                    It's ridiculous that probation officers do not to carry firearms. I used to volunteer at the probation dept, and I frequently went out in the field with unarmed PO's to meet with spousal battery offenders. The bottom line is this...if they beat up their wives/girlfriends/children, I'm sure as hell they won't hesitate to assault or kill a peace officer. The sad part is, most agencies are trying to cut costs, which is one of the reasons why they are unarmed. The PO's I knew said they would be happy with even a taser...just something more than a can of mace. They also didn't have radios and a lot of the probationers lived out in the boonies where cell phone coverage was scarce. I don't know how they did it, and seeing it first hand made me really respect those PO's.

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                    • #11
                      Probation V Parole

                      Now in Los Angeles County, there are a select number of Probation personnel carry. Whether or not they are part of some special unit I am not sure. There was talk about whether their Chief would approve, but that was yet to be determined. Parole agents I am sure carry but then again, I havent seen any since Ive been on.

                      I believe that being armed while executing your position is important. Its not only for the safety of the personnel, but also for the members of the public. That is why the rest of us are armed. Those that work for city or county agencies, and specialized departments as well. I look at it this way....school police officers carry and come in contact with an array of people that may or may not pose a threat...probation, and parole personnel come in contact with known and proven personnel everyday. So that should justify that these personnel carrying.

                      Obviously they should adhere to strict standards like any other agency, but in the short probation and parole personnel should carry on duty, not just off.

                      Be safe all.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sergeantloau
                        Now in Los Angeles County, there are a select number of Probation personnel carry. Whether or not they are part of some special unit I am not sure. There was talk about whether their Chief would approve, but that was yet to be determined. Parole agents I am sure carry but then again, I havent seen any since Ive been on.

                        I believe that being armed while executing your position is important. Its not only for the safety of the personnel, but also for the members of the public. That is why the rest of us are armed. Those that work for city or county agencies, and specialized departments as well. I look at it this way....school police officers carry and come in contact with an array of people that may or may not pose a threat...probation, and parole personnel come in contact with known and proven personnel everyday. So that should justify that these personnel carrying.

                        Obviously they should adhere to strict standards like any other agency, but in the short probation and parole personnel should carry on duty, not just off.

                        Be safe all.
                        Well stated. As I said in my initial post, I'm simply amazed that a debate even exists regarding probation officers being armed. You couldn't pay me enough to enter the homes of my felons and parolees unarmed!! Whether it's a routine probation visit or a high risk search with the intent of going 10-15...I'm armed. Of course, we always run into a few "suprise" felons during searches as well (they just seem to appear in the back bedrooms as we're clearing a house). The reality is that probation officers contacts are with felons and parolees 100% of the time. Every one of our field contacts brings along high officer safety risk. I carry off-duty as well. I don't like the idea of some dirtbag having 10 years in prison to think about the P.O. that sent him there!! Our Probation Department is very fortunate to have a GREAT working partnership with our S.O. and local PD's as well. We rarely execute a high risk search or warrant service without our fellow brothers by our side. It's too bad more Probation Departments don't partner with local agencies. It's a great relationship. The opporunity to share intel is great. In addition, our local agencies love it when they find out a subject is on active probation...no PC or paper needed to make entry. The reality is that we all work with the same group of offenders.

                        Be safe.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sergeantloau
                          Parole agents I am sure carry but then again, I havent seen any since Ive been on.
                          They carry.

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                          • #14
                            LA County Probation Dept. does authorize specific Specialized Units to carry firearms. These units are assigned to warrant service, probation searches and other prob. related field activities. They also receive their training through the Sheriff's Academy. These units generally do not work alone and work with local PD's and the local SD. Unlike, parole not all PO's are armed(although they should be).

                            Unfortunately, there are many probation depts. that continue to send their DPO's out into the streets with nothing more than a cellphone and mace!!! doesn't make much sense when attacks on our fellow peace officers is on the rise. Jus' my two cents...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Wyatt Earp
                              They all should be.



                              agreed...........
                              ''Life's tough......it's tougher if you're stupid.''
                              -- John Wayne

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