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  • Confusion about what Federal LEO's and CA firearms laws.

    There is somewhat of what us BOP staff can and cannot do. We are sworn federal officers with arrest authority and the ability to carry under LEOSA. Some of my co-workers say we are only covered under what LEOSA allows. Other say that we are allowed all of the exemptions afforded to any law enforcement in CA . So I was looking around for myself and found a few chunks of the CA Penal Code.


    This is an exemption to Concealed Carry Prohibitions in CA.

    25450. As provided in this article, Section 25400 does not apply
    to, or affect, any of the following:
    (a) Any peace officer, listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, or
    subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, whether active or honorably
    retired.
    (b) Any other duly appointed peace officer.
    (c) Any honorably retired peace officer listed in subdivision (c)
    of Section 830.5.
    (d) Any other honorably retired peace officer who during the
    course and scope of employment as a peace officer was authorized to,
    and did, carry a firearm.
    (e) Any full-time paid peace officer of another state or the
    federal government who is carrying out official duties while in
    California.

    (f) Any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in
    making arrests or preserving the peace while the person is actually
    engaged in assisting that officer.
    This is the LEO "Large Capacity" exemption.

    32405. Section 32310 does not apply to the sale to, lending to,
    transfer to, purchase by, receipt of, or importation into this state
    of, a large-capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer, as defined in
    Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830)
    of Title 3 of Part 2, who
    is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of that
    officer's duties..
    Here is the excerpt of said Chapter 4.5 regarding Federal LEO's

    830.8. (a) Federal criminal investigators and law enforcement
    officers are not California peace officers, but may exercise the
    powers of arrest of a peace officer in any of the following
    circumstances:

    (1) Any circumstances specified in Section 836 of this code or
    Section 5150 of the Welfare and Institutions Code for violations of
    state or local laws.
    (2) When these investigators and law enforcement officers are
    engaged in the enforcement of federal criminal laws and exercise the
    arrest powers only incidental to the performance of these duties.

    (3) When requested by a California law enforcement agency to be
    involved in a joint task force or criminal investigation.
    (4) When probable cause exists to believe that a public offense
    that involves immediate danger to persons or property has just
    occurred or is being committed.
    In all of these instances, the provisions of Section 847 shall
    apply. These investigators and law enforcement officers, prior to the
    exercise of these arrest powers, shall have been certified by their
    agency heads as having satisfied the training requirements of Section
    832, or the equivalent thereof.
    Exemption to the Handgun Safety Certificate

    31700. (a) The following persons, properly identified, are exempted
    from the handgun safety certificate requirement in subdivision (a)
    of Section 31615:
    (1) Any active or honorably retired peace officer, as defined in
    Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.
    (2) Any active or honorably retired federal officer or law
    enforcement agent.
    Exemption to Gun Free School Zone.

    (l) This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer
    as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of
    Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the
    federal government who is carrying out official duties while in
    California
    , any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in
    making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually
    engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of
    this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance
    of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the
    firearm pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150) of
    Division 5 of Title 4 of Part 6, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged
    in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision
    (e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.
    So based on this, Federal Law Enforcement working in CA can carry concealed, carry onto school grounds, and are exempt from needing a Handgun Safety Certificate. Yet, we may or may not be able to get a "large capacity" magazine?

    I apologize if this post seems written like a third grader, looking at CA Penal Code makes my brain hurt.

  • #2
    Where's the confusion? You do not qualify! It says full time police officers and federal LEO's (FBI, SS, DEA, etc) are exempt. It does not say anything about prison guards or security guards.

    Sorry but you do not fall under the exemption.

    Comment


    • #3
      You are covered under LEOSA only. You cannot purchase high cap mags. Be happy you can carry under leosa and don't worry about it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Sounds like your agency needs to have some serious briefing training on the subject. This is a pretty big deal for anyone in your agency to be confused about. In CA, I can assure you that you do not want to assume anything when it comes to gun laws.

        We have a BoP Prison here and my neighbor is with BoP. I was not aware they were "sworn federal officers with arrest authority." So you are a sworn federal officer even off duty? If you were, you wouldnt need a CCW. All of the Special Agents I work with (DEA, FBI) carry anywhere and everywhere

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by FlyingPig1 View Post
          Sounds like your agency needs to have some serious briefing training on the subject. This is a pretty big deal for anyone in your agency to be confused about. In CA, I can assure you that you do not want to assume anything when it comes to gun laws.


          We have a BoP Prison here and my neighbor is with BoP. I was not aware they were "sworn federal officers with arrest authority." So you are a sworn federal officer even off duty? If you were, you wouldnt need a CCW. All of the Special Agents I work with (DEA, FBI) carry anywhere and everywhere
          I think that information flow is the biggest issue. There is a memo on LEOSA guidance but that is all, I included a link to the PDF below. It also has a letter from AG Ashcroft to the Directors of BATFE, BOP, DEA, FBI, USMS, and IG.

          Here is what I know: We are sworn officers with powers of arrest. We are qualified for the same Law Enforcement retirement as the FBI, Secret Service, US Marshal's, etc. We are qualified for LEOSA, so I don't need a CCW. We get the special Law Enforcement pay. We attend the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. The only real difference is that we have different arrest powers, our arrest powers are listed below. All this stuff makes me think that BOP staff are Federal Law Enforcement Officers.

          FBOP LEOSA Guidance Memo

          An officer or employee of the Bureau of Prisons may—

          (1) make arrests on or off of Bureau of Prisons property without warrant for violations of the following provisions regardless of where the violation may occur: sections 111 (assaulting officers), 751 (escape), and 752 (assisting escape) of title 18, United States Code, and section 1826(c) (escape) of title 28, United States Code;

          (2) make arrests on Bureau of Prisons premises or reservation land of a penal, detention, or correctional facility without warrant for violations occurring thereon of the following provisions: sections 661 (theft), 1361 (depredation of property), 1363 (destruction of property), 1791 (contraband), 1792 (mutiny and riot), and 1793 (trespass) of title 18, United States Code; and

          (3) arrest without warrant for any other offense described in title 18 or 21 of the United States Code, if committed on the premises or reservation of a penal or correctional facility of the Bureau of Prisons if necessary to safeguard security, good order, or government property;

          if such officer or employee has reasonable grounds to believe that the arrested person is guilty of such offense, and if there is likelihood of such person’s escaping before an arrest warrant can be obtained. If the arrested person is a fugitive from custody, such prisoner shall be returned to custody. Officers and employees of the said Bureau of Prisons may carry firearms under such rules and regulations as the Attorney General may prescribe.
          Last edited by KJB; 01-01-2013, 04:42 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            LEOSA aka HR218 has nothing to do with State law and it doesn't have anything to do with having 24 hour arrest powers. The only thing that matters is whether you have arrest authority and some point during your duties, and are authorized to carry a firearm, not necessarily carrying, but authorized, however limited doesn't matter, that is all. The powers of arrest can be as limited a scope or broad it doesn't matter.

            Leosa exempts you from certain state law pertaining to carrying a loaded and concealed firearm. Nothing in Leosa exempts you from the magazine size, so don't carry normal capacity magazines over 10 rounds.

            This has been beaten to death for years. BOP guards qualify under Leosa, end of discussion.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Reservetobe View Post
              This has been beaten to death for years. BOP guards qualify under Leosa, end of discussion.
              I did search my butt off and I couldn't find anything that addressed CA laws specifically. Only stuff about being covered under LEOSA.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by KJB View Post
                I did search my butt off and I couldn't find anything that addressed CA laws specifically. Only stuff about being covered under LEOSA.
                You are covered, you agency acknowledges it but they will not offer any legal advice on the matter because they don't support it. Unfortunately BOP is not exempt from CA penal code like other federal law enforcement is, so purchasing high cap mags you are not exempt from.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You cannot carry onto school grounds, and are not exempted from high capacity magazines. Federal agents on official duties are exempted. AND you are NOT a CA peace officer!

                  There's no business for a prison guard to be armed on school grounds.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Unfortunatly, for BOP officers I think the issue is foggy for a reason. Not to knock BOP, but the three week academy at FLETC is very.....limited. I'm not sure what kind of firearms program BOP has either, but since BOP does not carry regularly on the job I can't see them being approved for off duty carry.

                    Now, should they for officer safety type issues? Possibly.

                    Per LEOSA, I think your covered. But you may want to inquire amongst your union shop steward or possibly any mangement/HQ memo's.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have YEt to see anyone I know in local, county or state L.E. arrest a federal peace officer for a weapons violation( short of some specific crime in which the FEd LEO was off duty, or not acting within course or scope) IF your agency allows you to carry specific weapons and has a policy on that carry, I doubt some local copper is going to bother you on the issue, I doubt any D.A. would file if it were presented to them, and I doubt State court is either.

                      I've been to cop shops like LAAPRAC and have seen FBI and CBP agents buying hi cap mags, and nodoby ever brought this up before.As Miller time said, check with your agency- if they say "no", then stick with that....
                      "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DOAcop38 View Post
                        I've been to cop shops like LAAPRAC and have seen FBI and CBP agents buying hi cap mags, and nodoby ever brought this up before.As Miller time said, check with your agency- if they say "no", then stick with that....
                        I think thats the issue though... BoP Corrections Officers are not federal agents correct? FBI, DEA Special Agents are authorized for that.
                        Now.... like what was said above, I wouldnt ever hassle any BoP officer about it, but believe me.... I know cops who would. Interestingly enough, my neighbor and I were talking last night (He is a BoP supervisor) and he said they cannot have high caps and fall under the same regs that govern CA CCW's. He said when he relocated he was advised on the CA laws regarding high cap mags and it was understood that they needed to stay behind.

                        I have absolutely no dog in this fight, but it seems there is a lot of confusion in BoP about a very serious issue. I dont know the answer. I would have no issues with a BoP officer carrying, but then again, Im not the rookie cop stopping you one night looking for an arrest either!
                        Last edited by FlyingPig1; 01-02-2013, 09:22 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Miller Time View Post
                          Unfortunatly, for BOP officers I think the issue is foggy for a reason. Not to knock BOP, but the three week academy at FLETC is very.....limited. I'm not sure what kind of firearms program BOP has either, but since BOP does not carry regularly on the job I can't see them being approved for off duty carry.

                          Now, should they for officer safety type issues? Possibly.

                          Per LEOSA, I think your covered. But you may want to inquire amongst your union shop steward or possibly any mangement/HQ memo's.
                          The only guidance at all regarding the issue in any way was the FBOP LEOSA Guidance Memo I linked to earlier.

                          Originally posted by CA Cop View Post
                          You cannot carry onto school grounds, and are not exempted from high capacity magazines. Federal agents on official duties are exempted. AND you are NOT a CA peace officer!

                          There's no business for a prison guard to be armed on school grounds.
                          Seriously, what is with the disrespect and hostility? I am not sure if you even read my questions or just saw that I was a correctional officer and turned on the hate.
                          I am asking for clarification on something so I make sure I don't break a CA law that didn't exist in WA or I was exempt to in WA as a state CO. I am just trying to be responsible in with a lack of guidance from my agency, one way or the other.

                          WA RCW's are very well written, clear, neat, and organized. CA penal code is very confusing to me.

                          What is wrong with a correctional officer carrying concealed on school grounds when any private citizen with a CA CCW can?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Talk about a can of worms, I've always been edgy on how a Federal Officer enforces State Law without a POST from that State. I was certified in PA before my employment with the Federal Government. When I transferred to CA I contacted the State POST Commission and got a list of what credits I needed to transfer my POST. The carrying Firearms issue got worse when I retired, my agency would not issue identification then claimed that because I was an 0080 Supervisor rather than an 0083 Officer I wasn't covered. Luckily I retired to Arizona where no permit is required and got a CCW Permit to cover me in most other states.
                            sigpic Welcome to Sierra Vista

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think the whole fed systems is screwy. To many LEO agencies outside of FBI CIA DEA ATF that all fall under that gray area. It seems like the Feds like to keep people in those areas. They like to hire people with the label of Police Officer or Agent VA Police, Treasure Dept Police etc yet they act more like security. Then there are the Special Agents ie FBI. I hate to say it but seems it would be easier to get on with a local PD/SO department or state Corrections, but I understand that not always easy.

                              No disrespect to any of the other Federal Officers but as stated above I don't think any local level patrol guy would dig you. It would be more of a learning lesson on both sides. And again check with department policy, don’t forget that’s on of the legal bases that gives anyone power ie department policy, state/fed law and case law. Granted it LEOSA may cover you BUT do you the legal resource to back you if your department hangs you out to dry?
                              I'd rather be judged by 12 rather carried by 6.

                              It should be noted that any and all post that are made are based on my own thought and opinions. And are not related or implied to represent the department I work for.

                              Comment

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