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Hard F.T.O. Program

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  • John Shaft
    replied
    Originally posted by pulicords View Post
    The agency I retired from was also "notorious" for letting substandard probationers go, but we didn't haze people, we didn't yell at trainees and we didn't instruct them that it's okay for cops to violate any law (ie: FLSA) when it was convenient. Standards need to be set and adhered to, but why add to the considerable stress that the new officer is already experiencing?

    There's a lot to learn as a trainee and FTOs don't need to give them examples of bad behavior as well as good. Adhere to the training requirements, demonstrate some patience with the newbies and set the bar "high" by providing a good example for them to emulate.
    ^This

    Leave a comment:


  • Broke Hoss
    replied
    My 1st rookie now has 20 yrs on & several are PTO's themselves now. Yeah, it has changed, but what hasn't? Not all of it is good, but not all of it is bad either.

    I'm not 1 that had my rook do push-ups beside the patrol car because he missed his call sign. But, if I thought that was the way to get through to him I would've. I did have 1 write himself a ticket for disobeying a stop sign (it happened at least once a shift 3 nights in a row)....he didn't do it again.

    Leave a comment:


  • nobodyjr
    replied
    Our FTO program used to cut people left and right up until about two-three years ago. Now it's like an youth soccer team where everyone gets a trophy (badge). A lot of people who are on the bubble get shuffled through easy FTO's and the slow upper class divisions.

    Leave a comment:


  • OneAdam12
    replied
    I had a captain yell at me to take off my badge. I did. He the asked me what it said on the badge. I said, "Patrolman." He said "if you want to keep it, shut up and go do it." I did.
    Never did like him. But I worked for him. That's all I had to know.

    Leave a comment:


  • valetudo39
    replied
    Originally posted by ateamer View Post
    Years ago, an FTO at a PD around here had his trainee pull in to McDonald's, go inside and ask the manager for an application.
    LMAO.....might use that one

    Leave a comment:


  • ateamer
    replied
    Years ago, an FTO at a PD around here had his trainee pull in to McDonald's, go inside and ask the manager for an application.

    Leave a comment:


  • pulicords
    replied
    The agency I retired from was also "notorious" for letting substandard probationers go, but we didn't haze people, we didn't yell at trainees and we didn't instruct them that it's okay for cops to violate any law (ie: FLSA) when it was convenient. Standards need to be set and adhered to, but why add to the considerable stress that the new officer is already experiencing?

    There's a lot to learn as a trainee and FTOs don't need to give them examples of bad behavior as well as good. Adhere to the training requirements, demonstrate some patience with the newbies and set the bar "high" by providing a good example for them to emulate.

    Leave a comment:


  • laco1x
    replied
    If yelling at a trainee, because he or she screwed up and could have potentially gotten hurt, is called hazing then the dept needs to re-evaluate it's program......but on that same note.....is it productive to yell at someone because he or she forgot the radio code for a low flying aircraft??

    When I was on training.....I was left at the station at EOW by myself to complete a couple reports, and work on my training book..(the agency I worked for had a station in a county park somewhere in the SGV) I was told to make sure I locked the station and locked the entrance gate when I left, and at the time the department only had one unit countywide for earlys....and they came out of the south station.....I could have left when everyone cleared, but Heck no....for all I knew this was a test and my TO was sitting in the dark watching to see if I would leave.........The next day my TO asked me what time I left I think it was about an hour and a half after my shift....so I told him, and he said laughingly That it was an hour and 45 minutes........after that He backed off a bit and we concentrated on the work at hand.....
    If there is a willingness to learn then why be harsh........

    Leave a comment:


  • mdrdep
    replied
    I've only yelled at a few trainees, it was always the kiss of death as none of them are employed by my agency any longer.

    Leave a comment:


  • valetudo39
    replied
    Originally posted by deputy x 2 View Post
    Changed considerably......for the worst.

    Back in the day...if you didn't cut it.....you were gone period...no matter if you had rank. It was call to call to call...and your FTO volunteered you for everything. Have you done one of those yet? I can remember getting at least 8-10 reports a night...the only one I could complete on their time was in custody arrests. The rest was done on my time but before the next day of work....because I got another 8-10 reports. By the time you got out of the program..you were well versed in all the types of reports/incidents. The car was your office and you didn't go back to the station until the shift was over.

    Fast forward to today. Neopotism runs rampant. The old school FTO's are gone. They have lowered the requirements to become a FTO. So FTO's today themselves don't have the "experience" to pass down to the youngens. If you're not cutting it...you are "extended" and extended. All reports are completed at the station before you put yourself back in service. There are some who have passed the FTO program and haven't taken reports like identity theft, elder abuse, domestics, child custody or have yet to see a dead body/coroner case!

    I had 4 dead bodies in the first two days!

    I am a firm believer the harder the FTO the better. If you aren't forced to learn or take/have the opportunity to learn..then the only one it hurts is you. You can only be as good as your FTO. A FTO is supposed to provide you the "foundation" where you take and apply that information and "build" what kind of officer you are going to be.

    Something so important as officer safety...should never be overlooked. If someone isn't officer safety conscious and fails to recognize and correct it...then by all means they should fail the program. You either have it or you don't. And if you don't...bow out graciously because this isn't a game and when the sheeeot hits the fan...you can't call a time out.

    I was approached many times to become a FTO. I declined after the old school ways values/ evals were revised to make the program "easier and less stressful".

    Done with my rant.
    I hear you I had an FTO for two phases that believed we deputies were not paid to eat. This guy would eat sunflower seeds and drink coke all day. I used to starve so I then started bringing peanut butter sandwiches and put them in my war bag and every time I had to get something out of the trunk I would gobble as much of the sandwich as I could. Plus I would get stuck with an average of 5 to 9 reports a night and would stay up all night to write them. Needless to say that there where a lot of kicked back reports.

    These days there are people that are working that would have never passed the FTO program from the old days which I think is bad. My buddy told me the other day that there was one female deputy that was on a call and the subject she was dealing with started yelling at her so she called for back up. When they arrived they found her sitting in her car with the doors locked and the subject standing near her unit. Man things have changed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Five-0fromSoCal
    replied
    I would say that our dept is still very stress related. Some stations are a little worse than others, but for the most part they are all stress related FTO training. Unfortunately there are some boots that weren't cutting it and put a case on their T.O's.

    Leave a comment:


  • deputy x 2
    replied
    Changed considerably......for the worst.

    Back in the day...if you didn't cut it.....you were gone period...no matter if you had rank. It was call to call to call...and your FTO volunteered you for everything. Have you done one of those yet? I can remember getting at least 8-10 reports a night...the only one I could complete on their time was in custody arrests. The rest was done on my time but before the next day of work....because I got another 8-10 reports. By the time you got out of the program..you were well versed in all the types of reports/incidents. The car was your office and you didn't go back to the station until the shift was over.

    Fast forward to today. Neopotism runs rampant. The old school FTO's are gone. They have lowered the requirements to become a FTO. So FTO's today themselves don't have the "experience" to pass down to the youngens. If you're not cutting it...you are "extended" and extended. All reports are completed at the station before you put yourself back in service. There are some who have passed the FTO program and haven't taken reports like identity theft, elder abuse, domestics, child custody or have yet to see a dead body/coroner case!

    I had 4 dead bodies in the first two days!

    I am a firm believer the harder the FTO the better. If you aren't forced to learn or take/have the opportunity to learn..then the only one it hurts is you. You can only be as good as your FTO. A FTO is supposed to provide you the "foundation" where you take and apply that information and "build" what kind of officer you are going to be.

    Something so important as officer safety...should never be overlooked. If someone isn't officer safety conscious and fails to recognize and correct it...then by all means they should fail the program. You either have it or you don't. And if you don't...bow out graciously because this isn't a game and when the sheeeot hits the fan...you can't call a time out.

    I was approached many times to become a FTO. I declined after the old school ways values/ evals were revised to make the program "easier and less stressful".

    Done with my rant.

    Leave a comment:


  • LA DEP
    replied
    Originally posted by Blizz View Post
    Irvine PD also has a notoriously difficult FTO program
    They (and a couple of other agencies) also have a very well deserved reputation of giving someone the boot right before the end of probation if they dont 'fit the mold'......no matter how squared away that recruit may be.

    Leave a comment:


  • Blizz
    replied
    Irvine PD also has a notoriously difficult FTO program

    Leave a comment:


  • M520
    replied
    Originally posted by Prospective View Post
    I am glad you brought this up. I have heard so many stories about how some depts are more focused on getting people up to speed and less on torture since they already got hammered during the academy. But then you hear others that don't think the academy was enough and hammer the **** out of their probationary boots to where they crack and quit or get fired before they are off probation. Torrance is one PD in particular I have heard is extremely hard on their people and the ordeal can last up to a year. Supposedly they have an inordinate amount of people who get all the way through the hiring and academy phases, only to be let go during FTO. Anybody know for real, or was this just hearsay?
    I have heard that about both Torrance and Cypress but that was 7 or 8 years ago. I also was told by an officer that TPD would hire more officers than they needed and then cut those they didn't need during FTO. I normally don't believe rumors but the fact that many different officers I spoke to with different agencies all had bad to say about those depts, was enough for me to never consider applying there.

    Leave a comment:

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