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Open Carry Exhibitions Backfiring

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  • DOAcop38
    replied
    Originally posted by IE Copper View Post
    I was referring to an attitude I find prevalent in the law enforcement community. Many LEOs have the attitude that only THEY should be trusted to carry a firearm. A civilian could never properly protect themselves without Police involvement.

    My observation is even consistent with your statement here:



    Do you watch the television series "Top Shot"? It is a reality series where the best of the best shoot it out to see who is the "Top Shot." They start out with 16 contestants, all highly proficient marksman, and none of them are Cops...
    have seen the show on the military channel i believe- and yes, they have HAD LEOs on the show. but then again, you are comparing apples and oranges.same with top sniper, where civilian police officers have competed in open competition with HIGHLY trained military specialist sniper teams, and HUNG in there!!!

    We are not discussing proficiency, but rather "will "and training to tactically deploy a firearm in a stress environment AGAINST an ARMED opponent- something many LEOS and military personnel aren't always ready for. Most cops,if off duty, would get their families and friends the hell out of the situation if they see it "coming down", how many civilians know a 211 in the making,while chowing down at denny's, or can spot a "dirty ride" before they pull up to the gas station or 7/11 ?

    I just think CCW is "polite",as it doesn't "offend" scarier and clueless folks, and it doesn't paint a "bulls eye" on the out in the open carrier- gangsters and criminals aren't DUMB like we think they are, they are all over the internet too, and I( and I'm sure you have) ran into plenty who seem to know the law. "open carry" means UNLOADED= less of a threat to a "locked and loaded " Crip or tweeker ...
    Last edited by DOAcop38; 04-25-2011, 07:14 PM.

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  • DOAcop38
    replied
    Originally posted by DAL View Post
    There is a big difference between proficiency with a firearm and judgment about when to use it.

    Nonetheless, I think it ludicrous to equate a California sheriff's being a Republican with his (or her) being a conservative, especially when it comes to guns. Perhaps in rural areas, but not in Los Angeles, San Francisco or Orange Counties.
    True, but I was referring to how some here on this site equate GOP= conservative, Liberal as democrat, or that all republicans/conservatives are "pro gun" (misnomer).Also given that alot of NON Ca. people chime in on the issue, with such absurdly stereotypical "anti california" crap, it is amazing that many don't know Ca. is a "may issue"( not totally against) state, or that you can still possess alot of so called "evil" guns if you are willing to abide with minor ( often temporary)changes to them....

    As far as the counties? San Fran- UBER liberal, vehemently anti cop. L.A. moderately liberal( until small business owners and home owners get scared of it burning down from riots, the legalize it/them protests, or attacked by half crazed parolee squee gee men) and the "OC" ( moderate conservatives, who pretend to have liberal views, but want their property values to continue to rise) Everyone else doesn't have an excuse other than local LE control of the issue...
    Last edited by DOAcop38; 04-25-2011, 07:04 PM.

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  • IE Copper
    replied
    Originally posted by BanditLAPD View Post
    There was just a study recent that out of just under 2 million ccw holders there were 168 "firearms incidents" it didn't state whether they were crimes involved or if they were justified just that was the total number. So basically there were less than. 0000000000000000000001% of ccw holders involved in anything firearm related. Don't know how the antigunners can ignore that.
    LOL, lets not get too crazy with numbers. The real percentage is .000084% of CCW holders are involved in firearm incidents. Your number would mean that there were .000000000000002 gun incidents. Any number less than 1 would be impossible for obvious reasons. Sorry, I'm a math geek.

    On a side note, I agree with your point that it is obvious that CCW holders aren't out runnin-an-gunnin.

    Leave a comment:


  • FJDave
    replied
    Originally posted by Feb2nd1979 View Post
    Dave so did a few Air Force guys, didn't see any army! ha GO AIR FORCE!
    'Cuz we are too busy fighting....HOOAH!

    Leave a comment:


  • BanditLAPD
    replied
    There are a ton of people out there that should be allowed to ccw however I think they need to set it up like the exposed permit that guards need to get where they have to requal every 6 months and the training needs to be more than 16 hours. It should be closer to 40 hours

    Leave a comment:


  • squad51
    replied
    Yeah you need to check the facts on that Top Shot show...The first season had 3 to 5 Police Officers although some where retired, this season had a Home Land Security Agent which I am guessing is Secret Service or Air Marshals, and a Sheriffs Lt.... as a Police Officer and former competitive shooter myself, I can tell you I have seen some just jaw dropping gun handling skills from my civillian counter parts. Almost all of them have a CCW permit. Heck I would even allow them to CCW on a ride along because I trust their gun handling skills and judgement that much.

    However with that said I can not think of one of them that thinks that Open Carry is a good idea. In my new assignement I do not wear a regular uniform, I generally wear a pollo shirt and my gun. When I go out in to public I make darn sure that people can see I have my Police badge displayed and or I have the words Police on my shirt along with the city name and what not so people do not get upset and call 911 and report a per gun on me.

    I have responded only once to a call were a person with a carry permit was openly carrying. He happened to be in an area that has a lot of violent crime, was outside a KNOWN gang member hang out and was trying to provoke a fight. Lets just say that this has really turned me off the open carry idea, even though I am very pro gun and I want people to get their carry permits! But come on lets be smart about it, and there is NOTHING smart about it in my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • BanditLAPD
    replied
    There was just a study recent that out of just under 2 million ccw holders there were 168 "firearms incidents" it didn't state whether they were crimes involved or if they were justified just that was the total number. So basically there were less than. 0000000000000000000001% of ccw holders involved in anything firearm related. Don't know how the antigunners can ignore that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Feb2nd1979
    replied
    Originally posted by FJDave View Post
    Hate to break it to ya bro....there was a police lieutenant in the last series that made it to the final 3 or so....just sayin'....
    Dave so did a few Air Force guys, didn't see any army! ha GO AIR FORCE!

    Leave a comment:


  • FJDave
    replied
    Originally posted by IE Copper View Post
    I was referring to an attitude I find prevalent in the law enforcement community. Many LEOs have the attitude that only THEY should be trusted to carry a firearm. A civilian could never properly protect themselves without Police involvement.

    My observation is even consistent with your statement here:



    Do you watch the television series "Top Shot"? It is a reality series where the best of the best shoot it out to see who is the "Top Shot." They start out with 16 contestants, all highly proficient marksman, and none of them are Cops...
    Hate to break it to ya bro....there was a police lieutenant in the last series that made it to the final 3 or so....just sayin'....

    Leave a comment:


  • DAL
    replied
    There is a big difference between proficiency with a firearm and judgment about when to use it.

    Nonetheless, I think it ludicrous to equate a California sheriff's being a Republican with his (or her) being a conservative, especially when it comes to guns. Perhaps in rural areas, but not in Los Angeles, San Francisco or Orange Counties.

    Leave a comment:


  • IE Copper
    replied
    Originally posted by DOAcop38 View Post
    Let us "agree to disagree" on SOME issues. NEVER once said that "only police officers should carry in publlic"
    I was referring to an attitude I find prevalent in the law enforcement community. Many LEOs have the attitude that only THEY should be trusted to carry a firearm. A civilian could never properly protect themselves without Police involvement.

    My observation is even consistent with your statement here:

    Originally posted by DOAcop38 View Post
    almost all of the county sheriffs in California fall over the line into republican/conservative land), but still holds an "anti gun" attitude
    Do you watch the television series "Top Shot"? It is a reality series where the best of the best shoot it out to see who is the "Top Shot." They start out with 16 contestants, all highly proficient marksman, and none of them are Cops...

    Leave a comment:


  • DOAcop38
    replied
    Originally posted by IE Copper View Post
    DOA, you keep bringing up the question of how do we determine which UOCer is a good guy, and which is a bad guy. Well, how do we determine which driver is a bad guy, or which pedestrian is a bad guy? You have also mentioned tactics, and how the danger involved in contacting a UOCer should somehow justify a ban on the practice. So, should we also ban people from driving vehicles? It's dangerous for LEOs to contact drivers on the freeway. Maybe we should ban marriage because DV calls are so dangerous.... My points may sound a bit over the top, but I am just following your lead.

    All the "I am a sworn Officer and ONLY I should carry a gun" talk aside, the whole argument comes down to a few basic points:

    1. UOCers have the right to exercise unloaded open carry.
    2. Police can not deny them their right to UOC.
    3. Many LEOs are dangerously uninformed about laws regarding UOC. The vast majority of LEOs would not know how to respond to a UOCer who refuses to identify himself.
    4. The opinion shared by many law enforcement officers about the safety or good sense of UOC is unimportant when compared to the legality of the practice. They can legally do it. Period.
    Let us "agree to disagree" on SOME issues. NEVER once said that "only police officers should carry in publlic"- I think, as some do, that CA should have CCW for who ever fits the requirement. I think open carry is STUPID, in that for the few that can quick load and quick draw, MOST can't, and WON'T ( and G-D have mercy on them if they encounter a situation where they have to), besides Gangbangers don't carry unloaded weapons, unless they are high( most of the time) or stupid( frankly,ALL of the time).

    and "yes", the knuckleheads will blend in, because, like the even DUMBER MJ law, you will confront far too many people doing it to even bother questioning who's legal and whose not, giving th eparolee and thug an opportunity to flaunt the law, until TRAGEDY occurs. Again my "two cents"- put it in your piggy bank, or toss it to the curb

    and Fed2nd1979- you made it plain and clear- follow the law, use good tactics,and be respectful- simple enough

    BTW, Fed2nd1979 , da'bro'pa'za'lah'vat, Tovarish( arm yourself with your stripped down AK/saiga" rifle and lets dance under our sun kissed, hollywood Red banners !!!)

    Leave a comment:


  • DOAcop38
    replied
    Originally posted by valetudo39 View Post
    Well in Arizona it is not up to the Attorney General on who gets the CCW. As long as you meet the state's requirements, have no criminal background and take a State approved CCW gun course you will get issued a CCW. That would be nice if it was the same here but it will never happen because people elect too many liberals who are anti-gun.
    You are kidding ,right? Most of the counties in Ca. are fairly CONSERVATIVE. and "anti gun"? I agree that some of the gun laws are fickle and STUPID( you can still buy a functional AK 47 here "if" you take offf the EVIL pistol grip,or buy one thats made mainly in america and doesn't have a flash suppressor- wow! "Real anti gun, i'd say"), and California is a "may issue" state, not a NO issue state- take it up with the county elected officials, or better yet the Sheriff of your county- an elected official who probably isn't a "liberal"( almost all of the county sheriffs in California fall over the line into republican/conservative land), but still holds an "anti gun" attitude.

    Leave a comment:


  • DAL
    replied
    Originally posted by valetudo39 View Post
    Well in Arizona it is not up to the Attorney General on who gets the CCW. As long as you meet the state's requirements, have no criminal background and take a State approved CCW gun course you will get issued a CCW. That would be nice if it was the same here but it will never happen because people elect too many liberals who are anti-gun.
    I think the difficult part is specifying what the requirements should be. In some states, you are entitled to a CCW permit even if you have a string of serious misdemeanor convictions, even ones involving weapons. And what if the person is a gang banger, drug user or alcoholic, or has a string of felony arrests?

    Leave a comment:


  • valetudo39
    replied
    Originally posted by DAL View Post
    Do you really want Kamala Harris to decide who gets a CCW permit?
    Well in Arizona it is not up to the Attorney General on who gets the CCW. As long as you meet the state's requirements, have no criminal background and take a State approved CCW gun course you will get issued a CCW. That would be nice if it was the same here but it will never happen because people elect too many liberals who are anti-gun.

    Leave a comment:

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