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  • #16
    Originally posted by District B 13 View Post
    IE, so based on the response to your post, can you explain WHY no-one put down the suspect?
    I believe I read somewhere (I do not remember where) that there as an armed CCW holder there that day but he did not take the shot because he was unsure how many assailants there were and he didn't feel he could get a clean shot without hitting a bystander. Don't know if there is any truth to that or not though.
    "Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimum food or water, in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon. He doesn't worry about what workout to do---his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him. The True Believer doesn't care 'how hard it is'; he knows he either wins or he dies. He doesn't go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the 'Cause.' Now, who wants to quit?"

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    • #17
      Originally posted by hobbsie711 View Post
      I believe I read somewhere (I do not remember where) that there as an armed CCW holder there that day but he did not take the shot because he was unsure how many assailants there were and he didn't feel he could get a clean shot without hitting a bystander. Don't know if there is any truth to that or not though.
      That sounds totally reasonable.
      sigpic
      Originally posted by Smurfette
      Lord have mercy. You're about as slick as the business side of duct tape.
      Originally posted by DAL
      You are without doubt a void surrounded by a sphincter muscle.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by District B 13 View Post
        IE, so based on the response to your post, can you explain WHY no-one put down the suspect?
        Could you imagine if someone had tried to and shot other people in the process? Bullets don't always hit their mark and they also don't always stop in the body. When Law Enforcement arrived they might have not known who the suspect was and the person trying to save the day might have been thought to be a suspect.
        Originally Posted by Law100
        Note to everyone: notice how respect I am

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        • #19
          Originally posted by DAL View Post
          I don't know how yu can draw that inference, given that virtually no one carries a weapon openly now.
          It's pretty simple. The 2nd Amendment secures the people's right to bear arms. If you ban the only legal form of bearing arms, you must open another form or you are in violation of the Constitution. This isn't something that would happen overnight, it would take several judicial challenges most likely. If CA became a "shall issue" state, CCW applicants would skyrocket; far more than the small group of current open carriers.

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          • #20
            Your original assertion: "Banning unloaded open carry will make a very strong case for CA to become "shall issue" for CCW's. I find it hilarious they keep pursuing this course of action which could result in far more concealed guns in public."

            My response: "I don't know how you can draw that inference, given that virtually no one carries a weapon openly now."

            Your argument:
            Originally posted by Shadowdrop View Post
            It's pretty simple. The 2nd Amendment secures the people's right to bear arms. If you ban the only legal form of bearing arms, you must open another form or you are in violation of the Constitution. This isn't something that would happen overnight, it would take several judicial challenges most likely. If CA became a "shall issue" state, CCW applicants would skyrocket; far more than the small group of current open carriers.
            I thought you were suggesting that more people would begin carrying weapons concealed without a permit. However, even if what you meant is that the legislation would ultimately be held to be unconstitutional, your reasoning is flawed.

            You assume that California would lose qnd that the court-imposed remedy would be that California would be required by the court to issue concealed-weapon permits liberally. But even if California loses, it could simply restore the current laws.
            Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
            Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Shadowdrop View Post
              Banning unloaded open carry will make a very strong case for CA to become "shall issue" for CCW's. I find it hilarious they keep pursuing this course of action which could result in far more concealed guns in public.
              we can argue the 2nd amend. issue all day, but really- open carry of UNLOADED firearms in L.A. ????( much less most of So.Calif??) "waste of time"- know officers who can barely load their firearms properly in a "controlled training environment" of low to mod. stress- and "Yes", SHAME on them) any half ***ed 18th streeter, or Compton Southside Crip is gonna have a FIELD DAY with yuppie packing UNLOADED HEAT- ( "hey, cuz, got a free gun and his wallet!!")

              And "yes", I don't think people need to go onto school grounds, gov't buildings/courts, with firearms !!! in the early part of our country they had to DISARM senators in DC to prevent violence during heated sessions! Even LE , on personal business can't go into some gov't buildings with a firearm. CCW works for me, and any citizens that wants access onto certain gov't facilities and grounds SHOULD disarm before entering. "may issue" CCW is going to be the way to go for the public in the future here in CA with all the budget restraints, high demands, and liabilities to LE
              "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

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              • #22
                Originally posted by pappabacon View Post
                It's a good thing that people bent on committing felonies with their guns will be dissuaded by a law against carrying their gun openly.
                Do you really believe that felons would carry openly?? Seems counterintuitive but I would love to see any cases of open carriers that committed crimes... Someone with a record would have to be a complete moron to openly carry before committing a crime... lol.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by peterarthur View Post
                  Do you really believe that felons would carry openly?? Seems counterintuitive but I would love to see any cases of open carriers that committed crimes... Someone with a record would have to be a complete moron to openly carry before committing a crime... lol.
                  You seem to have difficulty spotting sarcasm.

                  And you also seem to confuse someone who is a convicted felon with someone who is planning to commit a felony with a firearm.

                  Finally, I have no doubt that there are many instances of people who committed a crime with a firearm they were openly carrying, especially when long guns were used.
                  Last edited by DAL; 04-17-2011, 11:51 PM.
                  Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                  Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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                  • #24
                    People on this forum seem to forget that there is another reason for openly carrying firearms: to intimidate others. That is what led to California's ban on openly carrying loaded weapons.
                    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by DOAcop38 View Post
                      we can argue the 2nd amend. issue all day, but really- open carry of UNLOADED firearms in L.A. ????( much less most of So.Calif??) "waste of time"- know officers who can barely load their firearms properly in a "controlled training environment" of low to mod. stress- and "Yes", SHAME on them) any half ***ed 18th streeter, or Compton Southside Crip is gonna have a FIELD DAY with yuppie packing UNLOADED HEAT- ( "hey, cuz, got a free gun and his wallet!!")

                      And "yes", I don't think people need to go onto school grounds, gov't buildings/courts, with firearms !!! in the early part of our country they had to DISARM senators in DC to prevent violence during heated sessions! Even LE , on personal business can't go into some gov't buildings with a firearm. CCW works for me, and any citizens that wants access onto certain gov't facilities and grounds SHOULD disarm before entering. "may issue" CCW is going to be the way to go for the public in the future here in CA with all the budget restraints, high demands, and liabilities to LE
                      I agree, I mean how any of these people that open carry do you think have any gun retention training. I don't think too many of them wear a level 3 holster either. I believe open carry is not too smart especially unloaded and is a good way to attract unwanted attention.
                      Not all men can be U.S. Marines that is why there is the Army, Navy and Air Force.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by valetudo39 View Post
                        I agree, I mean how any of these people that open carry do you think have any gun retention training. I don't think too many of them wear a level 3 holster either. I believe open carry is not too smart especially unloaded and is a good way to attract unwanted attention.
                        If they don't know how to retain their weapon, they can take some comfort from its being unloaded.

                        Mostly, this is done for show (in low-crime areas, of course).
                        Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                        Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Yeah...I've yet to see ANYONE open-carry in Compton or Willowbrook/Watts.
                          sigpic
                          Originally posted by Smurfette
                          Lord have mercy. You're about as slick as the business side of duct tape.
                          Originally posted by DAL
                          You are without doubt a void surrounded by a sphincter muscle.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by FJDave View Post
                            Yeah...I've yet to see ANYONE open-carry in Compton or Willowbrook/Watts.
                            Ironic huh? Considering Compton, Rancho Dominguez, and the willowbrook area residents do every damn thing else like they did in the “wild west”( loot,shoot,rob,gamble,drink excessively,visit hookers,errr“dance hall girls”,burn down people's property~ and YES, they STILL ride horses and raise chickens and live stock there !!) Problem all the rabid OC'ers don't understand is that carrying a gun(especially UNLOADED) won't STOP CRIME! They are also naïve to believe that it won't be difficult to identify the felons and criminals mixed in with the open carry crowd!CCW holders have to SHOW their license...
                            "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DOAcop38 View Post
                              Problem all the rabid OC'ers don't understand is that carrying a gun(especially UNLOADED) won't STOP CRIME!
                              Police Officers carrying firearms do not stop crime. Should we stop carrying firearms? And if you meant to say that UOCers carrying firearms CANT stop crimes...you would be most definitely incorrect.
                              Originally posted by DOAcop38 View Post
                              They are also naive to believe that it won't be difficult to identify the felons and criminals mixed in with the open carry crowd!CCW holders have to SHOW their license...
                              I am curious; what leads you to believe that UOCers collectively believe that criminals and felons would be easily spotted among the UOC crowd? You talk as if these people are simpletons. I can assure you that they are not. And just to entertain your ridiculous comment, why would convicted felons UOC? UOCers are stopped and checked by law enforcement everywhere they go. I think that it is safe to assume that a criminal or convicted felon would conceal their firearm to avoid unwanted attention from law enforcement.

                              I have obviously been a strong supporter of UOC on these forums and I should admit that I go out shooting with a group of these "activists" (as they have been labeled here) often. These guys are top notch in all areas concerned with gun safety, tactics and proficiency. A couple of the guys I shoot with can draw, load, and shoot on target faster than I can draw and shoot with the same accuracy. I may have my front sight on target a fraction of a second quicker, but these guys shoot like some type of wild west gun slinger. Someone mentioned weapon retention, and to be fair, I have never seen them practice weapon retention. This is a fair point to bring up and I will be sure to mention it to them. Knowing these guys though, they will probably laugh and dare me to test them on it. They live and breath firearm proficiency.
                              "I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." Winston Churchill

                              Liberals are very broadminded: they are always willing to give careful consideration to both sides of the same side.

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                              • #30
                                On other threads, I have read that in states where no permit is required to openly carry carry a weapon, courts have held that openly carrying a firearm is not a basis for stopping someone to investigate. I have not, however, read the cases, and the people who post such statements do not seem to comprehend that doing something that is presumptively legal can be suspicious under some circumstances and justify inquiry by a law enforcement officer.
                                Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                                Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                                Comment

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